The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:42 pm

Hey all. I thought I'd weigh in here. Please don't take this as an official response from Mongoose either. Matt and myself have already discussed the possibility that I can take a look at SGB for Legend and re-work the NPC stat blocks (and even the magic system if at all possible).

I came onto the Legend SGB project at the end. It had already gone through a number of writers and it seems as though a curse literally ran through the book. I was asked to go through the manuscript and basically check for d20 parlance, trusting that the NPC stat blocks which were already converted and the magic system was fine. If I knew there was a problem with those blocks I'd have actually re-written the lot, however, that would have added a ton of time on an already delayed release I think.

I think I was the 4th or 5th writer on the book. However I'm willing to use what I've learned by working with Legend for the last x-months and see what I can do. Including using something akin to Blood Magic.

All I literally handled myself was the adventure text, the changes to the tests and a few other bits. Everything else was already pre-converted (hapazardly by the sound of it).

RangerDan: In my mind's eye I expected POW pacts with demons, restoring MPs through sacrifice, savage shamanistic traditions, spirit magic voodoo zombies. Especially considering the original's colorful list of gods/demons as a guideline.

See, now that's the kind of thing I like to hear because it gives me a good basis to look at developing that very direction.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Deleriad wrote:This is surprising and unsurprising in equal measure. Surprising because the author who finished it is writing Monsters of Legend II and is, I thought, pretty clued up on Legend. Unsurprising because it's not as if Mongoose doesn't have form for doing this. I had deliberately held off buying it for that reason.

I suppose it might be the case that somehow an earlier draft got uploaded. Perhaps it's worth Mongoose looking into this just in case. Really, this should be a jewel in Legend's crown. At the moment it's looking a lot like the opposite.
The author who finished it isn't happy with what's happened either, however it wasn't something I was asked to look at (re: stat blocks, since we assumed those were largely done). I would say at this stage going through and beefing up the various NPCs (and fixing the magic system) aren't an impossible task, or one I'd shy away from.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:15 pm

We are indeed doing another sweep of this book - those who have the PDF will be automatically updated, and the book will only go to print when we are happy with it.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby Prime_Evil » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:02 pm

msprange wrote:We are indeed doing another sweep of this book - those who have the PDF will be automatically updated, and the book will only go to print when we are happy with it.
That's great news!
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby jux » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:51 am

Great! Looking forward to it!
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:39 am

It is a substantial amount of work. I plan (myself) to completely rework all the NPCs for starters and bring their magic into line with Legend as much as possible. I can see where SGB would benefit from pacts with demons/eldritch beings and ancient gods. However I'm not sure what Matt's stance is on copying something from Blood Magic to SGB. Since SGB should essentially run right out of the book with a reliance on the main core, and perhaps Arms of Legend as well for the variant armours/materials.

I'm all for keeping things in one book though.

I'm not sure about the problems with races, backgrounds, combat styles because that wasn't part of the original (final) conversion I handled.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby jux » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:13 am

Ideally SGB could include the whole Blood magic book. 100 pages more + hardcover :)
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:20 am

Blood Magic is so good yes. Though I'm not sure Matt would authorise that haha.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby Olaus Petrus » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:37 am

Maybe you could reprint only those Blood Magic spells which the NPCs have or invent some new spells which resemble those of the Blood Magic. But if that's not possible then you could just use standard magic and add some suggestions how you can use this module together with Blood Magic supplement.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:43 am

Olaus Petrus wrote:Maybe you could reprint only those Blood Magic spells which the NPCs have or invent some new spells which resemble those of the Blood Magic. But if that's not possible then you could just use standard magic and add some suggestions how you can use this module together with Blood Magic supplement.
Hi Olaus, if I have my way I'll create a whole new set of spells for the book which have a deep S&S flavour. Imagine if you will the crazed Snake Cult of Thulsa Doom and the ritual which allowed him to transform into a huge serpent. Or a summoning spell which calls forth demonic creatures that not only do the casters bidding (if they succeed on a test), but can also possess the caster to confer powers beyond the scope of mortal knowledge.

I think there's definitely a place for standard magic as well and I feel that I could probably (if Matt wants me to) re-write the magic section of SGB to include suggestions of how you can use the Legend core and Blood Magic to give your games a Sword and Sorcery feel.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby Prime_Evil » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:46 am

Look at the other thread on running Swords and Sorcery under Legend for a few ideas ;)
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:59 am

I had a few ideas of my own originally Prime_Evil. It wasn't in the scope of my work on Legend at the time though to work with the magic system.

I run a lot of Sword and Sorcery, I write a lot of Sword and Sorcery too. I adore the genre and there are some great tropes which can be brought to Legend. I also like the way you do your quick&dirty NPC conversions from d20 to Legend. I think my plan at the moment would be to get SGB d20 and use that to convert the NPCs (and keep their respective power levels).

When I was handed the SGB manuscript all the stats were there and I don't have d20 SGB to reference from. So rightly/wrongly I assumed that the stats were OK as they pertain to the original. You kind of trust that when you get a manuscript to work on :)
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby Prime_Evil » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:30 pm

I think that fixing the statblocks needs to be the priority because some of the adventures are unplayable as written due to problems in that particular area. I don't really expect the book to be a definitive World of Xoth handbook, but I think that the introductory chapters could do with a little more crunch - if space allows, writing up the Player Races using a format similar to that in Vikings of Legend pp 65-67 would be awesome, but if this isn't possible the truncated version from pages 42-44 of the Elric rulebook might be fine. Magic is problematic because there simply isn't going to be enough space to go into the topic in the depth needed. However, even a page or two of additional detail on how to adapt the standard Legend magic system to the needs of the genre would be helpful.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:28 pm

Indeed. The statblocks are defnitely my primary concern. I've spent all morning looking at the way the NPCs in Necromancer's Knife (and others) are presented (now I'm actually looking for that kind of thing) and yes, there are problems which have to be solved ASAP.

I've been told we can't add any more pages to SGB. Fixing the magic for the NPCs shouldn't be too hard if I use Sorcery. I have always seen S&S magic as akin to Sorcery with perhaps some additional (material) components for the high end spells, using blood to power the spells. So expect me to fix it to the best of my ability anyways.

I am looking at the way the NPCs ramp up too, so expect the stats to alter. I'm going to adopt your 1 for 1 skill transfer too Prime_Evil. I really like that, so thanks for the previous headsup and thanks too for the support.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:22 pm

Just a tiny teaser, since I have torn down the magic section of SGB completely - I'm re-writing it based on my understandings of S&S and the tropes/genre.

Bear in mind that spells in S&S are often pretty subtle but carry a HUGE cost for failure, one which is often spectacular.

• Backlash: The caster becomes a focal point for a magical explosion which causes damage to everything in a 20m radius. Each creature caught in the blast must make a Difficult Evade test or take 1D6 points of damage to 3 random locations per Magic Point used to cast the failed spell.

Also bear in mind that the costs for magic are often tripled in S&S.

:mrgreen:
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:53 pm

The Wolf wrote:• Backlash: The caster becomes a focal point for a magical explosion which causes damage to everything in a 20m radius. Each creature caught in the blast must make a Difficult Evade test or take 1D6 points of damage to 3 random locations per Magic Point used to cast the failed spell.
:mrgreen:
Hi Wolf,

Glad to hear SGB is being revised prior to printing. It is a shame that the inconsistencies in the stat blocks were missed in editing - I think most would have preferred a slightly longer release date and having the book 100% but that's irrelevant now, the main thing is it is being fixed.

Regarding the above, it reads as though if the MP cost were 3 and I suffered backlash I would suffer 1D6 damage to 9 locations (I only have 7 as a humanoid). Is that the intention? Would it not be better to write it thus: ...or take 1D6 damage per Magic Point used to cast the failed spell to 3 random locations.

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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby The Wolf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:06 pm

Thanks Jim, I have re-written it (earlier) and clarified it a lot more.

• Backlash: The caster becomes a focal point for a magical explosion which causes damage to everything in a 20m radius. Each creature caught in the blast must make a Difficult Evade test or take 1D4 damage per Magic Point used in the casting of the spell to 3 random locations. So 3 Magic Points would be a powerful backlash that caused 3D4 damage.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:29 pm

The Wolf wrote:Thanks Jim, I have re-written it (earlier) and clarified it a lot more.

• Backlash: The caster becomes a focal point for a magical explosion which causes damage to everything in a 20m radius. Each creature caught in the blast must make a Difficult Evade test or take 1D4 damage per Magic Point used in the casting of the spell to 3 random locations. So 3 Magic Points would be a powerful backlash that caused 3D4 damage.
Cool.

Matt should probably save himself some money and enlist the aid of us forumites for proof reading, the majority of us would do it free, or a minor fee :wink: Send a chapter or two to each interested party (3-4 people maximum) - if he likes the work, a mention in the credits would probably be sufficient and perhaps a free PDF copy of the book if he's in a generous mood.
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby PeteN » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:11 pm

DamonJynx wrote:Send a chapter or two to each interested party (3-4 people maximum) - if he likes the work, a mention in the credits would probably be sufficient and perhaps a free PDF copy of the book if he's in a generous mood.
I wouldn't be so sure, considering I still haven't even received a courtesy copy of the lamentably butchered Blood Magic...
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Re: The Spider God's Bride - A Mini Review

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:15 pm

PeteN wrote:
DamonJynx wrote:Send a chapter or two to each interested party (3-4 people maximum) - if he likes the work, a mention in the credits would probably be sufficient and perhaps a free PDF copy of the book if he's in a generous mood.
I wouldn't be so sure, considering I still haven't even received a courtesy copy of the lamentably butchered Blood Magic...
Ahh, well, you are the competition now...
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