ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

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ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby TheFactotum » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:21 am

Hey All
So for an upcoming game I was planning to run some Inner sea's. However I've always wanted to run a "continued epic" game, a game where the adventuring can keep going without to much concern for powercreep. Powercreep being something 3.5, and thus pathfinder suffers from greatly. There will definitely be character progression, dungeons, loot, and BFB's, but I don't want adventures to lose their challenge via power creep. So i've heard favorable things about mongoose publishing's legend, the newest version of runequest, and I realize there will be some work needed to do conversions of monsters, but how well does the shoe fit?
I'm planning on converting the adventure paths(rise of the runelords,curse of the crimson throne, etc) over into legend format and running them that way. How possible is this endeavor?Is it possible to run The Inner Sea's using Legend.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Fonso » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:50 am

I think that could be easely done if you do two simple things:

A) Reduce the number of combats per sesion. Pathfinder is more combat oriented than Legend. If you want to do all Aventure Path's combats, will be a massacre in Legend.

B) You will have to change many D&D monsters for other more classics enemies. D&D have tons of exotics monsters that is not necessary in legend. You don't need, for example, two dozens of different kinds of zombies, or weird humanoids. Transform many of the monsters in human beings or other creatures as elfs or goblins. You always can "reskin" a monster: Saying, for example, than something is a "kobold" but using the goblin's Legend characteristic for it, changing its appearance, tactics or weapons, nothing more.

Dan True, in this forum, have done an excellent conversion of many monsters or spells of D&D. You can use it to easy your job.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Hopeless » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:01 am

Ooh!

I've been running a few pathfinder scenarios in Legend, am very interested in seeing how you handle this since I've been wondering about running rise of the runelords!

Okay will be back to reread this later once I get a chance to reread the first part!

By the way there's a supplement which convert Kobolds and ogres I believe on drive thru rpg and the other pdf sites if that helps but I think thats RQ based but that shouldn't be too much trouble to use with Legend.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby havercake lad » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:15 am

Compared to D&D variants you will find that magical items and artifacts are less common in most fantasy RPGS.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby TheFactotum » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:56 pm

Hopeless wrote:Ooh!

I've been running a few pathfinder scenarios in Legend
How has your experience gone? Any tips or points of enlightenment you found?
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby TheFactotum » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:02 pm

Fonso wrote:I think that could be easely done if you do two simple things:

A) Reduce the number of combats per sesion. Pathfinder is more combat oriented than Legend. If you want to do all Aventure Path's combats, will be a massacre in Legend.

B) You will have to change many D&D monsters for other more classics enemies. D&D have tons of exotics monsters that is not necessary in legend. You don't need, for example, two dozens of different kinds of zombies, or weird humanoids. Transform many of the monsters in human beings or other creatures as elfs or goblins. You always can "reskin" a monster: Saying, for example, than something is a "kobold" but using the goblin's Legend characteristic for it, changing its appearance, tactics or weapons, nothing more.

Dan True, in this forum, have done an excellent conversion of many monsters or spells of D&D. You can use it to easy your job.
I've gotten the free download by Mr. Dan True(fine work indeed), aswell as the chaos download for the "monsters of legend" book. I think the chaos table should take care of the crap ton of variant monsters you find in dnd.

The concern about combat was something I hadn't realized. I would basically be pushing my group into a meat grinder.

My goal in all of this is to run a kind of tolkien or dragonlance epic, I'm strapped for money/time so the adventure path conversion may be the wrong way to go about things. I have access to the inner seas and forgotten realms as settings, and a few more I'll have to dig through my bookcase to see.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Da Boss » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:32 pm

Dans work is great

in case it of use / interest - I am working on a D100 variant - taking inspiration from many elements of Legend(*) - some of which may well be useful for you / provide a few different options.

(*) I have simplified combat quite a bit but also given a few different options, same with magic.

:)

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?z0xlycuijzu3u8d
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Hopeless » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:23 pm

TheFactotum wrote:
Hopeless wrote:Ooh!
I've been running a few pathfinder scenarios in Legend
How has your experience gone? Any tips or points of enlightenment you found?
First thing I realised was that I should have converted the money downgrading them so any gold was silver and so on, this mistake meant they had enough money to not have to adenture for quite a while but found a way to encourage them to continue.

Have modified some of the foes so they mirror whats in the scenario but use stats in the Monsters of Legend book such as having some skeletons that were still clad in flesh, frogs that seemingly self destructed flooding part of the catacombs in response to the PCs presence and even had one enemy that wouldn't stay dead without the use of the first magical weapon they found... they surprised me when they willingly left it behind!

Kept magical items for the most part easy to understand, any enchanted armour had Protection, any weapon had Bladesharp except for a dagger that had Countermagic but they didn't bother checking that one out properly!

Kept it low magic so that unless they chose a spellcasting profession they didn't start off with any magic, but had potions of healing available to buy and one was even given as part of a deal for their second adventure.

Encouraged their interest by giving them something to work towards, the nobles had a chance of a title and land, the blacksmith researched the secrets of steel and the woodsman proved apt at sleuthing even managing to find a thief exonerate the nobles when an old foe tried to frame them for a murder!

Still working on the cult side of things using RQ3 as a guide with it being based on Greek and Norse Gods would like to hear your thoughts on this too.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby hanszurcher » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:07 pm

I've run Against the Cult of the Reptile God with legend, but that is a low level AD&D module largely focused on investigation.

As far as power creep, just avoid using expansions/supplements and stick to the feats and powers found in the core book. If you're interested, the advantage/disadvantage system found in the upcoming D&D 5th edition is designed to reduce the numerical modifiers that creep into and unbalance the game.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby warlock1971 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:20 am

Da Boss wrote:Dans work is great

in case it of use / interest - I am working on a D100 variant - taking inspiration from many elements of Legend(*) - some of which may well be useful for you / provide a few different options.

(*) I have simplified combat quite a bit but also given a few different options, same with magic.

:)

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?z0xlycuijzu3u8d
Great work with Arradicia by the way.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Dan True » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:15 pm

One thing you should be aware of, is the power level of magic. if I ever get back to working on the Eberron conversion*, I will take care of it there, but otherwise you need to keep it in mind.

For instance, a wizard can cast a combined Enhance(INT) and enhance(DEX) and suddenly the whole party has 6 CA. This may be okay if you want the party to fight Demons the size of houses, or ancient dragons... but it gets rather ridiculous against more evenly-matched enemies.

One way of handling it, which I have not done in the Eberron conversion, is to describe each school of magic as a cult instead of simply a grimoire - and then having say 5 grimoires for Enchantment, which you gain access to while progressing the ranks of the cult. That way, only very experienced, (nearly epic) wizards will have access to the spells needed for the awesome combinations.

You can also introduce smaller magic items with countermagic or neutralise magic imbued, and enemies can have these too. The problem is that when they kill the enemies, they get that stuff as well, not really solving the problem.

One other thing you should bear in mind is the CA economy. In d&d a skilled fighter a few levels above the party, can hold his own against them due to passive defense. In Legend he will get swamped... so baddies like vampires, fighty villains or other types who usually fight the party solo, need some minions to balance the amount of CA on each side - or be fighting in an environment where they can distract the players, split them up etc. like in thin walkways, sledges or something.

- Dan

*If I ever get back to it, it will likely be split into a Legend version and a RQ6 version, as I have lately taken up RQ6.
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby TheFactotum » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:00 pm

After talking it over with my group, I will be running Legend+Golarion but not the adventure paths. The conversions wouldn't work out so nice. Thanks for the help everyone. Anyone have any experience making legend adventures and have tips for making them effective? I've run plenty of pathfinder but this will be my first time truly running legend (I've played a session or two, but nothing serious).
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby TheFactotum » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Dan True wrote:One thing you should be aware of, is the power level of magic. if I ever get back to working on the Eberron conversion*, I will take care of it there, but otherwise you need to keep it in mind.

For instance, a wizard can cast a combined Enhance(INT) and enhance(DEX) and suddenly the whole party has 6 CA. This may be okay if you want the party to fight Demons the size of houses, or ancient dragons... but it gets rather ridiculous against more evenly-matched enemies.

One way of handling it, which I have not done in the Eberron conversion, is to describe each school of magic as a cult instead of simply a grimoire - and then having say 5 grimoires for Enchantment, which you gain access to while progressing the ranks of the cult. That way, only very experienced, (nearly epic) wizards will have access to the spells needed for the awesome combinations.

You can also introduce smaller magic items with countermagic or neutralise magic imbued, and enemies can have these too. The problem is that when they kill the enemies, they get that stuff as well, not really solving the problem.

One other thing you should bear in mind is the CA economy. In d&d a skilled fighter a few levels above the party, can hold his own against them due to passive defense. In Legend he will get swamped... so baddies like vampires, fighty villains or other types who usually fight the party solo, need some minions to balance the amount of CA on each side - or be fighting in an environment where they can distract the players, split them up etc. like in thin walkways, sledges or something.

- Dan

*If I ever get back to it, it will likely be split into a Legend version and a RQ6 version, as I have lately taken up RQ6.
I'll keep this in mind. Thanks Dan. I had intended to keep the setting appropriate to the mid-magic level, but in no way was I intending to run legend the same as pathfinder(I don't think you can). So magic items when "needed"(as per story versus necessary gear looting), etc. But I'm not sure how to handle common magic in golarion, any suggestions?
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Mixster » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:00 pm

Dan True wrote:One thing you should be aware of, is the power level of magic.
Magic is less powerful in legend than in 3.5 or pathfinder though.

A good way of getting around this is also to have more fights in a day, if a wizard casts enhance int + dex + 4 targets + range, he uses 3 magic points (and 4 combat actions!). Most wizards wont be able to do that more than 2-3 times per day. But since warriors in Runequest should take little damage in combat, they can often go on through a dozen combats in a day, as long as they've got a little healing.

Since everyone in legend gets a saving throw against almost all spells, buffing works a lot better than de-buffing, battlefield control or direct damage spells.
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby TheFactotum » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:22 pm

Mr. Dan True
I'm interested in how you converted the dnd races for eberron. Since I'm running galorion I have quite a variety of races to choose from and am wondering how I should convert them, if at all. Open question for everyone really.

For example. the Kitsune race has the following stats
Standard Racial Traits

Ability Score Racial Traits: Kitsune are agile and companionable, but tend to be physically weak. They gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, and –2 Strength.

Size: Kitsune are Medium creatures and thus have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Type: Kitsune are humanoids with the kitsune and shapechanger subtypes.
Base Speed: Kitsune have a base speed of 30 feet.

Languages: Kitsune begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Kitsune with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: any human language, Aklo, Celestial, Elven, Gnome, and Tengu. See the Linguistics skill page for more information about these languages.

Feat and Skill Racial Traits
Agile (Ex) Kitsune receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.

Magical Racial Traits
Change Shape (Su) A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.

Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/day—dancing lights.

Offense Racial Traits
Natural Weapons (Ex) In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.

Senses Racial Traits

Low-Light Vision: Kitsune can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.


What would be an effective way of converting the kitsune race?
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Prime_Evil » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:53 pm

warlock1971 wrote:
Da Boss wrote:Dans work is great

in case it of use / interest - I am working on a D100 variant - taking inspiration from many elements of Legend(*) - some of which may well be useful for you / provide a few different options.

(*) I have simplified combat quite a bit but also given a few different options, same with magic.

:)

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?z0xlycuijzu3u8d
Great work with Arradicia by the way.
Yes...there are some good ideas in there :)
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Dan True » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:33 am

TheFactotum wrote:Mr. Dan True
I'm interested in how you converted the dnd races for eberron. Since I'm running galorion I have quite a variety of races to choose from and am wondering how I should convert them, if at all. Open question for everyone really.

For example. the Kitsune race has the following stats
Standard Racial Traits

Ability Score Racial Traits: Kitsune are agile and companionable, but tend to be physically weak. They gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, and –2 Strength.

Size: Kitsune are Medium creatures and thus have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Type: Kitsune are humanoids with the kitsune and shapechanger subtypes.
Base Speed: Kitsune have a base speed of 30 feet.

Languages: Kitsune begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Kitsune with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: any human language, Aklo, Celestial, Elven, Gnome, and Tengu. See the Linguistics skill page for more information about these languages.

Feat and Skill Racial Traits
Agile (Ex) Kitsune receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.

Magical Racial Traits
Change Shape (Su) A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.

Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/day—dancing lights.

Offense Racial Traits
Natural Weapons (Ex) In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.

Senses Racial Traits

Low-Light Vision: Kitsune can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.


What would be an effective way of converting the kitsune race?
I usually took the approach of starting with human stats, then applying the different bonuses. I.e. They have superior dex and cha, so dex and cha are made 2d6+6 instead of 3d6, perhaps higher. Strength is 3d6-3 or keep it standard (Beware of the negatives, as poor stats can kill you much faster in Legend than in d&d)...
Siz is the same.
Base speed is the same.

Drop bonus languages - they're only there in d&d because almost no one would learn languages anyway because of all the language-magic.

The traits are the real hard nut to crack, because that's where the flavour is and the potential for a real sucky or op race. Some (like the bite) can be taken from the monster book. The magic and change shape will require some work to work well..

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Old timer » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:31 am

Just a quick observation, no race in legend rolls attributes as x dice minus a number, as 3d6-3 could lead to 0 strength, i would suggest if the above race is not strong, roll 2d6+3 instead (same maximum of 15, average of 10)
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Dan True » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:19 am

Old timer wrote:Just a quick observation, no race in legend rolls attributes as x dice minus a number, as 3d6-3 could lead to 0 strength, i would suggest if the above race is not strong, roll 2d6+3 instead (same maximum of 15, average of 10)
One of the reasons to beware of negatives. Although the rules specifically says to reroll any result below 6, so a str of 0 is not happening. But 2d6 might be better yes (2d6+3 evens out to 10, just as 3d6, so it's no penalty).

Also remember this will mean most Kitsune will have a negative dmg mod. which means their bite attack will in reality do 1d4-1d2...

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
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Re: ADVENTURES IN INNER SEA'S, USING LEGEND?

Postby Old timer » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:29 am

Actually, if the above race is human sized, they will, on averages, not get a damage bonus but nor will it be a negative, as human sized is 2d6+6, an average of 13, and with an average strength of 10, that is a total of 23 on the damage bonus chart and 21 to 25 is no damage bonus.

Gods, i am sounding like a rules lawyer :)

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