Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

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Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby jstrong » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:49 pm

I'm prepping for my first gm session of Legend, and have a question:

why do weapons have a combat maneuver designation? Does this mean ONLY these CM's can be used with the weapon?
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby Dan True » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:18 pm

jstrong wrote:I'm prepping for my first gm session of Legend, and have a question:

why do weapons have a combat maneuver designation? Does this mean ONLY these CM's can be used with the weapon?
No it means this CM can only be used by these weapons - for instance, entangle can only be used by whips (and whatever the GM decides works in a similar fashion, for instance a wet towel...).

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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby Lemnoc » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:02 am

Dan True wrote:
jstrong wrote:why do weapons have a combat maneuver designation? Does this mean ONLY these CM's can be used with the weapon?
No it means this CM can only be used by these weapons - for instance, entangle can only be used by whips (and whatever the GM decides works in a similar fashion, for instance a wet towel...).

- Dan
I think Dan means YES, correct, these CMs can only be used by that weapon. :wink: —e.g., a club cannot impale.
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby Dan True » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:48 am

Lemnoc wrote: I think Dan means YES, correct, these CMs can only be used by that weapon. :wink: —e.g., a club cannot impale.
No, I mean no ;) He asked:
jstrong wrote:Does this mean ONLY these CM's can be used with the weapon?
Which, if true, menas that a whip could ONLY entangle and a sword could ONLY impale or bleed. Which is not the case. Bleed can only be used by a weapon with an edge - but this does not mean that weapons with an edge can only bleed.

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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby jstrong » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:43 pm

So what is the point of the weapon's CM designation if you can use any CM with it?

And, like the previous poster, it makes sense that only certain CM's are available for certain weapons. How can a club impale!?!? ;)

The way I read the rulebook, you can use ANY CM with ANY weapon. But then the weapons have specific CM's as features--so I don't understand why.

Should my Greatsword be able to "choose location" as I sweep it into my opponent? :/
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby Old timer » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:04 pm

Simple answer yes, your great sword can choose location like any weapon, and it can sunder, bleed and impale, but it cannot entangle. A short sword can bleed and impale as well, and choose location, but it cannot sunder or entangle. The CM in the weapon descriptions are specific CM to that weapon, the other CM available are more general tactics to employ when you get a CM. Also in your post you ask how can a club impale, it cannot, it does not have that CM as an option.
Is that explanation any clearer?
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby Fonso » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:06 pm

There are three types of maneouvers:

Critical maneouvers: Bypass armour, maximise damage, blind opponent & pin weapon. You only can use them if you have a critical roll in your skill.

Weapon maneouvers: Bleed, Entangle, Grip, Impale, Stun Location, Sunder & Take weapon. You can only select them if you have an appropiate weapon for it.

General maneouvers: Bash opponent, bypass parry, change range, choose location, damage weapon, disarm opponent, trip opponent, enhance parry, overtextend opponent, redirect blow, regain footing, riposte, slip free & stand fast. Anyone, using any weapon can select them, as long as they are attacking or defending as appropiate for the maneouver used.

When you gain a maneouver, you only can choose between you can select for the kind of roll, result, and weapon used.
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby jstrong » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Weasel, that clears it up--THANKS! :D
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby sdavies2720 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:49 pm

This is one of the areas that I think Legend is poorly described. The rules don't clearly lay out which CMs are only usable by certain weapons (with those CMs listed in the weapon table) and which CMs are usable by any weapon (so are not listed in the weapon table because they are always usable).

The rules could have categorized weapons (eg Slash, Impale, Bash) and attached the weapon-specific CMs to those classifications, but this wasn't done clearly either.

But once you 'get' what is going on, it's pretty easy to understand. It's just unfortunate that this is one of the (few) poorly communicated rule areas.

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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby Dan True » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:58 pm

sdavies2720 wrote:This is one of the areas that I think Legend is poorly described. The rules don't clearly lay out which CMs are only usable by certain weapons (with those CMs listed in the weapon table) and which CMs are usable by any weapon (so are not listed in the weapon table because they are always usable).
Huh? It is stated under the description of the CM in the book when a CM can only be used by a certain type of weapon - the column in the weapons table is only for easy reference.

- Dan
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby DamonJynx » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:59 am

Dan True wrote:Huh? It is stated under the description of the CM in the book when a CM can only be used by a certain type of weapon - the column in the weapons table is only for easy reference.

- Dan
+1. I don't think it is unclear either. There are some CM's that can only be used by certain weapons and others that can be used whenever and by whatever. The whole point is to liven up what would other wise be pretty boring attack-parry sequences by giving choices to create cinematic style combats.
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby sdavies2720 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:22 pm

Dan True wrote:
sdavies2720 wrote:This is one of the areas that I think Legend is poorly described. The rules don't clearly lay out which CMs are only usable by certain weapons (with those CMs listed in the weapon table) and which CMs are usable by any weapon (so are not listed in the weapon table because they are always usable).
Huh? It is stated under the description of the CM in the book when a CM can only be used by a certain type of weapon - the column in the weapons table is only for easy reference.

- Dan
To be clear, my comment refer to layout/description, not to the rule itself. Here's an example:

p133: Impale (Thrusting Weapons Only). I cannot find a place where it tells me which weapons are thrusting weapons. I expected to see it on the equipment table, but it doesn't.

p101 & 107: on 101 the description of the Combat Maneuvre column, "The Combat Maneuvres (see Combat chapter) a weapon can inflict -- such as Bashing, Impale, etc." From that description I would expect the column to tell me all the combat maneuvres applicable to that weapon. But when I go to 106 and look at Short Spear, for example, I just see "Impale" listed. But clearly I can use other Combat Maneuvres with Short Spear.

So, there's a gap/disconnect in how the rules are described. Not fatal, but inconsistent. If they listed the types of weapons that each combat maneuvre applied to, and listed the type in the equipment table, that would be consistent.

I think the bigger problem is in the equipment table column description, but introducing the Bludgeoning/Cutting/Entangling/Thrusting terminology without defining it adds to the challenge.

You may feel, "if that's the biggest gap in the rules, we're in great shape." I'd agree with that -- I like the Legend rules. Maybe I should have said, "this is one of the FEW rule areas that I think Legend is poorly described."

Steve
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby DamonJynx » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:38 pm

I see your point Steve regarding the layout. I agree that categorising weapons in similar terms to D&D i.e. Slashing/Cutting, Piercing/Thrusting, Bludgeoning/Crushing and so on would add a lot of clarity. And perhaps also separating weapon specific CM's from non-weapon specific CM's may also add clarity.

However, I feel this is really a bit nit-picky. The layout is not that bad, sure some people will get it and other will need some advice, but overall I don't think there is a major issue.
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Re: Weapon Specific Combat Maneuvers question

Postby sdavies2720 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:40 pm

Agreed. I just thought I'd better clarify when I saw a "Huh?" and a +1.

Steve

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