combat skill over 100%

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sbadranga
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combat skill over 100%

Postby sbadranga » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:18 pm

hi, i'm new in the forum and in the legend game system.
Just a question:
is attack vs parry considered a opposed skill test? and the rule of "opposed skill over 100%" is applicable?
I mean: one guy has 150% and his foe has 50% (after all the penalty/bonus). what happens?

thanks
F.
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Da Boss
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby Da Boss » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:34 pm

IIRC you would reduce the opponents skill by the number of points over 100:

so in the example you give - the opponent would only hit on a 01 I believe
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby sbadranga » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:17 pm

thanks for the reply,
but.. in this case, isn't the weaker too much penalized?
I mean:
if the combat use the normal skill (150 vs 50) we will have
15% critical - 80% success - 4%failure - 1% fumble
vs
5% critical - 45% success - 48%failure - 2%fumble

if the "over 100" is subtracted (100 vs 0) we will have:
10% critical - 85% success - 4% failure - 1%fumble
vs
1% critical - 4% success - 93% failure - 2% fumble

this will lead the odds to:
critical: from a 15-5 to 10-1
success: from 80-45 to 85-4
overall successful action (attack or parry): from 95-50 to 95-5

i don't know, but in this way it seems that the penalty for the weaker becomes more and more important as the % goes up over 100, giving him almost no possibility to defend (the possibility to have one or more then one "special action" is incredible high!!)

thanks
F.
sbadranga
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby sbadranga » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:23 pm

more..
after some research i found:
in RQ2 - page 86 - Attacks and Parries: "Attack and parry rolls are subject to the ‘Opposed Skills Over 100%’ rule on p35, despite not strictly being an Opposed Test."
in Legend Core this sentence is deleted.

Does this means that the "over 100%" rule cannot be applied to a combat contest?
For me, it shouldn't be applied, but.. maybe there is something i don't understand well.

thanks
F.
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Dan True
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby Dan True » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:26 pm

sbadranga wrote:more..
after some research i found:
in RQ2 - page 86 - Attacks and Parries: "Attack and parry rolls are subject to the ‘Opposed Skills Over 100%’ rule on p35, despite not strictly being an Opposed Test."
in Legend Core this sentence is deleted.

Does this means that the "over 100%" rule cannot be applied to a combat contest?
For me, it shouldn't be applied, but.. maybe there is something i don't understand well.

thanks
F.
I don't think they changes this, as the systems are compatible. Either it has been moved to some other area or it is simply a mistake.

Remember that your example is quite extreme. A guy with 150% is a legendary fighter while one with 50% is barely on his way to competent... It seems rather fair that the legendary hero could trump him almost all the time. It is very, very rare that you have players or NPCs with skills in the 150s without using magic to get up there.

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Mixster
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby Mixster » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:10 pm

The difference between a guy with 70% and 120% skill is the same as between a guy with 50% and 100%, so doesn't it make sense to scale them down so it matters to have a skill over 150%.

If this rule wasn't there, there would hardly be any reason to increase your skills beyond 100%. Which is when they get expensive to increase.
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby GamerDude » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:34 pm

Ahh how much this discussion (and the legend skill system) reminds me of my days GMing Hackmaster 4th. I consider it an *early* percentile based system mainly because it being the first one I ever encountered.

Skills maxed out at 125%, and there is a reason for pushing high skill ability - to negate any negative modifiers you might encounter.

But also you have to consider the RoI of pushing the skill that high especially during character creation. Have you left any room for the character to progress? How did the character get to that level (especially if they are young... an 18 yo with a 125% in Astronomy seems pretty far fetched).

In the case of the "150% vs 50%", this is a serious mismatch of combatants. Is the less-skilled character looking for a fight trying to provoke the better skilled character? Is the better skilled character just an egotistical bully who enjoys fighting only opponents they know are too weak?

In the first case this really is more "how does the skilled veteran teach the young pup a lesson without taking advantage of their immaturity". This should be the classic scene of the young 50% pup angry not knowing when to stop as the veteran keeps dodging, slapping the pup's arse with the flat of his blade, occasionally putting a fist upside the pup's head, and all the while trying to talk some sense into the pup so they'll stop this nonsense.

In the second case its a matter of "do the numbers really matter this is a lopsided fight and there is no real chance for the weaker character to prevail". The fight should be short, sweet, with the young pup on their back sword point at their throat, if not bleeding to death/dead.
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Harshlax
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Re: combat skill over 100%

Postby Harshlax » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:31 am

sbadranga wrote:more..
after some research i found:
in RQ2 - page 86 - Attacks and Parries: "Attack and parry rolls are subject to the ‘Opposed Skills Over 100%’ rule on p35, despite not strictly being an Opposed Test."
in Legend Core this sentence is deleted.

Does this means that the "over 100%" rule cannot be applied to a combat contest?
For me, it shouldn't be applied, but.. maybe there is something i don't understand well.

thanks
F.
Just to clarify the above quote from the MRQ2 book: Attack vs Parry rolls are not Opposed tests, as both can succeed without reference to each other, you don't need to roll higher on your Parry than the attacker rolled on their attack. They are still subject to the rule of adjusting skill levels down by the amount over 100% of the higher skill level once situational modifiers have been applied.

It is important therefore for the Attacker to wait for a Parry to be declared before rolling, as per the rules. It appears that, as others have said, Legend cut this thus leading to the confusion. RQ6 maintains the rule applying in its description of "Differential contests", it's term for the kinds of test used in combat. It also warns that the defender needs to declare before the attack roll even more so when their own skill is greater than 100% as if they don't it can lead to the confusion of attack rolls at first hitting, then missing.
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