Actual play questions

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juca
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Actual play questions

Postby juca » Fri May 11, 2012 4:55 pm

So, having read the book some times over and "stress testing" the system alone some more, I've actually tried some combat and social scenarios and I reached some more doubts:

1 - One of the test characters tried to bluff his way past a sage. He has 50% on his Diplomacy (or Influence, I don't remember the exact skill name) while the sage has 150% on his test. Using the rule of 100%, the character has 50%-50% = 0% of chance of actually suceding in his test. Is this correct or am I forgetting something?
2 - Mages have POW Magic Points, right? There is some way of augmenting this value without raising his POW value? There is actually a "mana" potion? Well, there is some kind of examples of magic items somewhere in the basic book?
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Fonso » Fri May 11, 2012 5:13 pm

1 - From 01 to 05 is always successfull. Of course you will need almost certainly 01 to get a better level of success than the sage.

2 - I fear isn't any magical object in the core rules. You could use a nature spirit to increase its MP (using the WE of Spirit Magic) or you could use the sorcery spell Tap to drain another creature and gain more MP.

I hope this help.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Simulacrum » Fri May 11, 2012 5:17 pm

Almost nobody in my world has 150% in anything, but I'm aware some people run games where they have characters and NPCs toting skills in the 200+ or even 300+ range. In the event they do, yes, I think this applies. If you need a chink in the system to make sure there is always a chance of success (rather than just point out this guy is unbluffable by this character) allow that there is always a success on an 01-05. The sage will still get his opposed roll, so the chance of succeeding is way under 5% (but assume also 96-00 is always a fail).

Tap spells (see sorcery section) and similar abilities (life drain) can give you extra magic points. POW crystals as per Arms of Legend. a POW/MP sotrage device is, historically, a standard magic item in previous iterations and D100/BRP systems, but in legend you would probably keep all but legendary items to a low level, ie in the 1-6 Magic Points range.

Buy Blood Magic - there's heaps of ways to get access to Magic Points in there - most of them are, of course, a tad bloody.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby rust » Fri May 11, 2012 5:23 pm

juca wrote: ... or am I forgetting something?
The Difficulty of the task, for a start. For example, if the referee
decides that the task is Very Easy despite the opponent's high
skill, this results in a Skill Test Modifier of +60%. There is also
the possibility that a complementary skill may be used to aug-
ment the skill test, or that the character is assisted by another
character, to mention just a few points.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Hopeless » Fri May 11, 2012 11:02 pm

juca wrote:So, having read the book some times over and "stress testing" the system alone some more, I've actually tried some combat and social scenarios and I reached some more doubts:

1 - One of the test characters tried to bluff his way past a sage. He has 50% on his Diplomacy (or Influence, I don't remember the exact skill name) while the sage has 150% on his test. Using the rule of 100%, the character has 50%-50% = 0% of chance of actually suceding in his test. Is this correct or am I forgetting something?
Half it so the Sage's skill drops to 75% and the test character drops to 25% I believe there was something on this in either RQ1 or an even earlier version of Runequest.
juca wrote:2 - Mages have POW Magic Points, right? There is some way of augmenting this value without raising his POW value? There is actually a "mana" potion? Well, there is some kind of examples of magic items somewhere in the basic book?
Other than the suggestion about the blood magic book I'd say make one up but to avoid your players getting hold of it make sure to price it suitably astronomical or have them have to gather the ingredients which can easily be used for an adventure with their would be alchemist actually setting them up to be betrayed.

You could always have a Heal variant potion that restores expended Power/Magic Points which might actually be easier but like the Heal common magic works in magnitude, there was a divine equivalent but i don't remember if it was RQ1 or earlier possibly the 3rd edition which refers to that.

Augmenting sounds like you'd be better off explaining this as being inherent to the sorceror's home having been built and modified with enchantments for that purpose but will fail once the sorceror dies or some artefact to object ala Dorian Gray's portrait is either destroyed or used to confront the sorceror dispelling their powers.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Deleriad » Sat May 12, 2012 6:05 pm

Just on point number 1. The 50%er has just under a 1% chance of winning. That is, I reckon, quite reasonable given the difference in skills. In Legend, 150% is the mark of a legendary expert while 50% is a competent amateur. Think of a chess grandmaster versus a club player or one of the top 10 tennis, golf or poker players in the world against someone who plays club matches. The club player may win the odd point but will never win a match.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Hopeless » Sun May 13, 2012 1:32 pm

Suberle the Healers Guild on rpgnow or drive thru rpg has details on a magic replenishment potion admittedly it looks like it was based on RQ1 but given what I've read so far the Spellwater spell listed there should fit nicely!
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby juca » Sun May 13, 2012 10:47 pm

Well, I have more questions that arose during play and, not wanting to create another topic just for them, so here they come:

1 - What about slings and they damage and range? I've shot both slings and bows in real life (granted, none of them were "military versions", but still...) and I have the impression that the sling can't possibly reach further than the bow. Also, the staff-sling damage is a whopping 2d6! The same as an arbalest!? Is that a typo or the medieval armies were all wrong in using more modern weapons? The sling is cheaper and reach longer than the bow!

2 - When someone is attacking and the target is defending, we are talking about two independent rolls or opposed rolls? Does it matter, when both succeeded, whenever one rolled higher than the other? Or, if both succeeded and none rolled a critical hit or fumble, the defender always wins?
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby strega » Sun May 13, 2012 11:08 pm

I would point out that trying to equate modern bows to ancient or medieval weapons is not particularly useful.

A staff sling is used to throw something like a 1/2 kilo or larger rock. Not something that I'd want ending up hitting me even if I was armoured and certainly much worse than a small stone or lead sling shot.

Combat is fairly clearly explained in Combat chapter in the rules.
An attack is generally parried using the defenders combat style skill in which case the degree of success is what matters as getting a greater success can allow the winner to gain a battle ending Combat Manoeuvre (see the table on p131).

A defender can also Evade using their Evade skill. The number of Combat Actions usually determines the outcome of the fight if the combattants are otherwise equal.

If the defender parries with a weapon one size smaller it only halves the amount of damage inflicted rather than eliminating it (p129). A parrying weapon or shield two or more sizes smaller doesn't reduce damage at all.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby rust » Mon May 14, 2012 12:13 am

juca wrote: ... and I have the impression that the sling can't possibly reach further than the bow.
It depends very much on the type of the arrow and on the
archery tactics. Medieval war arrows had about twice the
weight of modern arrows, and these arrows were normal-
ly used en masse in a somewhat "ballistic" way to bypass
the opponents' shields by hitting more from above than
from the front. I think that the bow should have a signifi-
cantly greater range with a hunting arrow fired directly at
a target, but of course such a lighter arrow would also do
significantly less damage.

Many of the ancient armies, including for example the Ro-
mans, preferred the sling to the bow. However, the bow is
more efficient against armour than the sling, and therefore
the sling disappeared from the battlefield when armour be-
came a more common equipment.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby jwpacker » Mon May 14, 2012 1:06 am

There have been arguments on this forum, and on pretty much every other RPG forum that touches on ancient weaponry, about the rules for slings versus bows. The sling advocates usually demand greater range that the bow, and the archers complain that the system lacks the necessary mechanics to model the greater armor-bypassing characteristics of many arrow heads. Legend does at least give arrows the ability to choose Impale as a combat maneuver, but there's still no mechanic (that I recall) to say that they only do say 1d6 damage, but ignore the first two points of armor.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby juca » Mon May 14, 2012 2:40 am

Why not do the contrary? Maybe armor counts as double against sling? Or double if one or two points, and two extra points if higher than 2. This way, an armor with 1 point of protection goes to 2, while another with 4 points is upped to 6. This seems fair?
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby rust » Mon May 14, 2012 8:17 am

While we do not use slings in the Legend system, our house
rule for another system is that slings do no damage against
heavy leather or metal armour - in such cases a hit by a sling
bullet can hurt badly and can cause a nasty haematoma, but
it does not destroy any hit points, causes no bleeding and can-
not cause a wound infection. This is not entirely realistic, at
short range a sling bullet can of course even kill a person in
heavy leather or metal armour with a hit to the head, or break
some bones or joints, but since slings are only used by non-
player characters in our campaigns the players did not com-
plain about the rule.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Simulacrum » Mon May 14, 2012 9:38 am

Here we go again...

There are an awful lot of opinions about this - generally to do with the relative range, accuracy, damage and how easily learned they are to use. one thing I don't remember seeing opinions on is whether a character's DMs should applied to sling damage.

Historically a sling is a poor man's weapon, but also used en masse whenever cost matters. The weapon is dirt cheap to produce, the ammunition abundant and largely zero cost unless you are using specially cast lead shot. So in an archaeological dig of a siege/assault site in the ancient world you may find stockpiles of slingstones. Clearly spending days and weeks pinging arrows backwards and forwards is a strain on resources, so give everyone a sling. We know this was the case for roman legionaries.

For my house ruling I either ignore the whole thing or if needed have different sling damage for e.g. clay, baked clay or stones, carefully selected/graded pebbles and cast lead (D4, D6, D8, D8+1).

Likewise with bows I use different ammunition types, but also the type of bow makes a difference as in RAW, and I only allow DM to apply where the bow type indicates sufficient draw to allow a strong character to get more power out of it. So a hunting bow - 1D6, no DM. A war bow D8+DM.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby soltakss » Mon May 14, 2012 12:13 pm

juca wrote:and I have the impression that the sling can't possibly reach further than the bow.
For the love of God, I am hoping this doesn't end up as one of those "Slings are better than bows", "Bows are better than slibgs" threads. :D

I think that there are some threads that discuss in the minutest of detail the pros and cons of using slings and bows.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Loz » Mon May 14, 2012 12:42 pm

2 - When someone is attacking and the target is defending, we are talking about two independent rolls or opposed rolls? Does it matter, when both succeeded, whenever one rolled higher than the other? Or, if both succeeded and none rolled a critical hit or fumble, the defender always wins?
Its independent rolls, not Opposed Rolls. So no, it doesn't matter if you have a better level of 'normal' success.

If both succeed, its not the case that the defender always wins. It means that the defender has deflected some damage, the amount deflected being based on what they're defending with. The attacker deals-out damage as per his weapon and the defender blocks said damage based on the size of the weapon he defends with. He may block all, half or none of the damage.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby juca » Mon May 21, 2012 11:04 am

More "in play" questions!

1 - About reach: when huge creatures are using their natural weapons (like claws, tentacles and the such) to attack creatures or characters with less reach, their can be attacked normally throught their natural weapon, right? It seems obvious, but since I didn't not read anywhere in the book, I have to ask: does the attacker get to roll a random hit location or will him always hit the attacking extremity? Also, still on huge creatures with natural weapons, does they have the same penalty of no parry when a creature with less reach is closer than they reach?

2 - There is a combat maneuvre that lets the character change the distance between him and his oponent, does he needs to success at an evade test (or opposed roll)? Or is the success automatic?

Thanks again!
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby strega » Mon May 21, 2012 1:10 pm

If you can't reach the attacking creature but due to reach it can hit you then you really need to close range to make an attack. The optional Weapon Reach rules on p139 explain this. If you aren't using these rules then you can house rule it.

Only Natural Weapons with the Formidable Natural Weapons trait can parry metal weapons. Most creatures aren't able to parry adventurers weapons which usually results in one or two combat manoeuvres for the attacking adventurer. I tend to use two or more non-parrying beasts per PC to make a fight of it. A large creature with no parrying weapon/claws will usually make use of the Outmanoevre action to stop some attackers from making an attack roll.

Closing (and disengaging) are dealt with on p139. Again these rules are optional, you can house rule it if you aren't using these rules.

Weapon Reach is treated as an optional rule as explained in that section. If you don't want to use it then forget about weapon reach completely.
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby juca » Mon May 21, 2012 10:05 pm

Well, Strega, I'm not sure you understand my questions... (or that I understood your anwsers). I do have the book and I looked at the pages before asking, the catch is that the ruling is either poor-worded or I simply failed to extract that exactly points from the rules.
But thanks nevertheless!
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Re: Actual play questions

Postby Loz » Mon May 21, 2012 10:39 pm

1 - About reach: when huge creatures are using their natural weapons (like claws, tentacles and the such) to attack creatures or characters with less reach, their can be attacked normally throught their natural weapon, right? It seems obvious, but since I didn't not read anywhere in the book, I have to ask: does the attacker get to roll a random hit location or will him always hit the attacking extremity?


It depends on the weapon of the human attacker. If its a long weapon capable of reaching into the body of the creature, then yes. If not, then no, you'd be limited to striking the extremity. As always, apply some common sense depending on the circumstances.
Also, still on huge creatures with natural weapons, does they have the same penalty of no parry when a creature with less reach is closer than they reach?
No, because they're attacking with a limb which is a flexible piece of weaponry that moves at several points of articulation. Its not like a sword or spear which is a rigid extension of a limb and subject to certain movement limitations.
2 - There is a combat maneuvre that lets the character change the distance between him and his oponent, does he needs to success at an evade test (or opposed roll)? Or is the success automatic?
Yes, there's a CM called 'Change Range'. It lets you close or open distance freely.
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