Spells of Legend

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Faelan Niall
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Faelan Niall » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:46 am

Honestly women have had many herbal concoctions throughout history that were very effective at either preventing pregnancy, inducing menses, or causing a spontaneous abortion, none of them changed the way things worked in society. Women were still in many places treated as valued property.

I think the self only usage would in fact take care of most of my concerns, or even a willing participant requirement. Also I don't see the issue with a universal contraceptive, it really changes nothing. Women can still decide for themselves, but so can men.

As to a Fertility spell, well I think a guarantee of pregnancy can result in a load of problems depending on the setting...like you know infertile Elves, or a dying race is suddenly revived because of a spell. Thematically I also see it more as a ritual or religious rite performed on a community or with a community, rather than a Common Magic Spell.

My strong feelings come from years of being fortunate enough to have balanced gender gaming groups, and having discussions such as these come up less from my material than from actual published materials having a gender bias.

(So yes I will give a Fertility Rite a shot when I have my books handy.)
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby soltakss » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:17 pm

Faelan Niall wrote:
Da Boss wrote:Actually I do think its the kind of spell (and the polar opposite) that fantasy women will kill for, this level of control over whether they risk childbirth or not would I would have thought be highly desired by most - from Noblewomen to prostitutes through to your average farmers wife.

The opposite - ensuring pregenacy - could help ensure stability in a realm and the spell as is would be an effective curse on a rulers wife.
My point was that with the infliction of it upon an unwilling recipient it simply becomes a tool for pimps, and rapists. Making it a universal contraceptive removes that aspect or at least levels it out. If it was not usable against the unwilling I would agree with you, however as written it is. I guess every randy noble would have next to no fear of bastards running around.
You could have an example where a husband does not want children but the wife does, so she resists the spell. Alternatively, a nobleman wants an affair with a serving girl, but she wants money from him for a child, so she resists the spell.
Faelan Niall wrote:Your comment about ensuring pregnancy just reinforces my initial concern. How about a curse on the male ruler making his seed fail? Why does it always have to be the woman, who needs to be concerned with pregnancy? Essentially the spell as written simply reinforces certain stereotypes which have been hanging around gaming since the first case of bikini maille.
Women are concerned with pregnancy because historically, childbirth was the most dangerous thing a woman could do. A good proportion died in childbirth or as a result of childbirth. In fact, many women didn't have sex within marriage to avoid dangerous pregnancies - this even happened in recent memory before the advent of the contraceptive pill.

But, I could see this spell known by males as well as females. Could you trust a partner to have cast the spell before a tryst? It might be worth casting it yourself just to be sure.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby soltakss » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:21 pm

Faelan Niall wrote:Honestly women have had many herbal concoctions throughout history that were very effective at either preventing pregnancy, inducing menses, or causing a spontaneous abortion, none of them changed the way things worked in society. Women were still in many places treated as valued property.
And they were banned by the medieval church for most of its history. You could go to hell for using them, or be called a witch for making them.

Using such devices was one of the reasons for the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th Century - the Catholic Church didn't like how the Cathars could control their fertility in exactly those ways. So, they did change how things worked in society.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Faelan Niall » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:43 pm

soltakss wrote:
Faelan Niall wrote:Honestly women have had many herbal concoctions throughout history that were very effective at either preventing pregnancy, inducing menses, or causing a spontaneous abortion, none of them changed the way things worked in society. Women were still in many places treated as valued property.
And they were banned by the medieval church for most of its history. You could go to hell for using them, or be called a witch for making them.

Using such devices was one of the reasons for the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th Century - the Catholic Church didn't like how the Cathars could control their fertility in exactly those ways. So, they did change how things worked in society.
Actually there is a lot of evidence people used them anyway, regardless of what the church said. Also the world is a hell of a lot bigger than just Europe. Lastly the Albigensian Crusade was waged due to the refusal to accept the authority of the King of France, and the authority of the Pope, not because someone was using contraceptives. Though I am quite sure the ensuing Inquisition would not have hesitated to use it as an excuse.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby soltakss » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:59 pm

One of the reasons ...
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Prime_Evil » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:01 am

On a less controversial note, I've been looking at reworking the common magic spells that grant skill bonuses to make them more interesting and less susceptible to abuse. I'm also trying to give them an interesting flavour. Here's a rough draft of a possible replacement for Armoursmith's Boon - let me know whether this looks reasonable:

Forge Chant
Instant, Magnitude 1, Progressive, Trigger
This spell increases the caster's chance to achieve a critical success when making a Craft Skill Test involving any sort of forged metal. The caster receives a +2% bonus to the chance of achieving a critical success per point of Magnitude invested in the spell. Thus, a smith who casts this spell at Magnitude 3 receives a +6% bonus to their chance of achieving a critical success. If the caster makes a successful Sing skill test immediately after casting this spell, they receive an additional bonus equal to their Sing skill rating divided by 10 (rounded down). Dwarven mastersmiths often use a forge chant in conjunction with the ceremonial casting rules when working to ensure that their metalwork is of the highest quality. Indeed, Dwarven forges often echo with the sound of voices raised in song. The bonuses granted by a Forge Chant cannot stack with any other spell-effect bonuses.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Harshlax » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:21 pm

Re the Contraceptive spell. For many of the same reasons mentioned in an older thread where a spell was proposed that removed or enhanced Fertility, such a magic should possibly belong in Divine Magic.

You would then have a reason for men to use Sacred Prostitutes as they would have this protection, and a reason for women to value these temples, as this Goddess would be the only source of this kind of protection - no questions asked. If the Goddess also provided magics to ensure fertility and safer childbirth She would be an extremely important part of the community.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Lord High Munchkin » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:26 pm

Yes, probably should be Divine Magic only.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Prime_Evil » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:02 pm

That's probably a good idea....thanks for the suggestion!
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superc0ntra
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby superc0ntra » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:04 pm

Whatever happened to Farsee?

Here is my take on this common magic spell.

Farsee
Duration 60, Magnitude 1, Progressive, Touch

Each magnitude of this spell allows the recipient to see things as through a telescope with a magnification equal to the magnitude +1. So magnitude 2 Farsee makes distant objects look three times larger or one third as distant depending on how you prefer to think of it.
The spell may be switched on and off at will during the spells duration.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Prime_Evil » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:28 am

Nice work!
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby superc0ntra » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:28 am

Anyone know why Harmonize was dropped?
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby superc0ntra » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:06 pm

Harmonize
Concentration, Magnitude 2, Ranged, Resist (Persistence)
This spell causes the victim to do exactly what the caster does. It works only on targets with the same body type as the caster, i.e humanoid – humanoid, quadriped – quadriped etc. The recipient will try to do exactly what the caster does although this may sometimes not be physically possible. Only one target may be under the influence of this spell at once and casting it on a second target releases the first.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:56 pm

You should be able to resist it with a Persistance Roll against the Caster's Skill. SOMETHING.
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superc0ntra
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby superc0ntra » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:15 am

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:You should be able to resist it with a Persistance Roll against the Caster's Skill. SOMETHING.
That's what the description says: Resist (Persistence)
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Prime_Evil » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:05 am

I suspect Harmoise was dropped because it is a bit too powerful for a Common Magic spell and its role has been taken by the Sorcery spell Dominate (Species).

I could see a place for a spell that forces a target creature to carry out a single unambiguous verbal command of limited duration though. The caster must speak the language of the target and the command must be one that can be performed in a single round (a single combat action?). The target should get a substantial bonus to resist self-destructive commands (e.g. "walk off that cliff") or commands that violate deeply held beliefs (e.g. "kill your wife", "attack those children", etc).
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:19 pm

superc0ntra wrote:
Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:You should be able to resist it with a Persistance Roll against the Caster's Skill. SOMETHING.
That's what the description says: Resist (Persistence)
Oooppss :oops: obviously I missed that! I was expecting to see it in the description (I'll shut up now!)
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superc0ntra
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby superc0ntra » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:38 pm

Prime_Evil wrote:I suspect Harmoise was dropped because it is a bit too powerful for a Common Magic spell and its role has been taken by the Sorcery spell Dominate (Species).
One of the fun parts with Harmonize (Chaosium version) was the "do as I do", so in order to use it you had to be fully concentrated on the target and also make a fool out of yourself by walking around, swinging in the air etc.

Missed the Dominate species though.
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby Bifford » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:25 pm

So with this new influx is the pulled together document updated...? :)
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MongooseMatt
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Re: Spells of Legend

Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:36 am

Hey guys,

Was going to say... :)

If you can double the number of spells that are currently in the document we would, if you liked, reformat it and then released as a free PDF - as part of the official Legend core range.

If you liked...
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