Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

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Kurgan
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Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Kurgan » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:59 am

Title says it all. I want 'em, and I'm betting you want 'em, too. :)

C'mon, just picture it in your mind...

Nice, black faux leather hardovers, with the "Legend" logo/book titles and corner caps in shiny silver (or maybe do the corner caps in some brass/copper/gold coloring).

Seriously, I'm drooling at the thought of it.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby arthurfallz » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:38 am

Though those would be nice, I was delighted at how inexpensive the Legend Core Book was. $20 here in Canada, and I can see why. Simple perfect bound soft cover, minimal but decent art, easy to read, quality paper. I wish more RPGs were this cost and quality!

Seriously, pretty art and full colour does nothing for the quality of the game. I want good rules and cheap books, and Legend has those both down in this edition.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Kurgan » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:16 am

Well, I suppose I can appreciate budget gaming materials, but personally I'd rather see a game book done nicely on all counts and have to pay a little more. I've seen all the variations over the years; good material in a cheap package, lousy material dressed-up with gorgeous covers and artwork, and the occasional win/win of quality material wrapped in superb packaging and artwork. As a gamer and collector, I'll always hope for the latter, even if it costs more. The RQII books were simply awesome, and although the names are changing, I dearly want to see the production quality continue on that level.

Besides, no reason they couldn't do both, eh? :)

As for being easy to read, though, I'm dubious. I've yet to actually see one of the Legend books, but I do own the RQI "Pocket Deluxe" digest book, and the print is so tiny I can't even see it. If the Legend books are like that one (or, to be honest, any digest sized RPG book I've encountered), they'll be useless to me, and my vision isn't even all that bad (I've a very mild reading glasses prescription).

Palladium tried to go the digest route with the new Robotech: Shadow Chronicles line, and it was a disaster. Due to negative reactions, they ended up doing three versions of the core book, one softcover digest, one full-sized hardcover, and another big hardcover limited edition, and all future supplements are reverting to the traditional 8-1/2 x 11 format (softcover), including the few existing digest books when/if they eventually merit a second printing. I'm not saying digest books are bad, not at all. It's a cool idea to some (myself included, if I could see 'em), but clearly it's not a universally popular, or functional, decision.

So, you betcha, I think it'd be great if they offered the Legend books in differing formats; one large hardcover like the RQII books, maybe one large, cheaper softcover, and the digests.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby sdavies2720 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:42 am

I have both the physical and pdf version of Legend, and both are easy to read. I'm especially happy with how the pdf looks on my Kindle -- the larger format RQII was always difficult to move around in. With Legend I can move down the page.

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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Kurgan » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:23 am

Hi Steve,


Thanks for the feedback, but honestly, I'm not looking for justifications to like the digests. That's simply not gonna happen. And keep in mind, "easy to read" is a subjective term; I'm sure someone said the same thing about the previous RQI digest --the one I can't read. :)

I'm an old-school gamer. I consider PDFs a convenience, but no substitute for the "real thing" (and the prices are ridiculous), and I simply dislike digests. Gimme a big, heavy book to spread open on the table and I'm happy as the proverbial clam. One of the things that first attracted me to Mongoose was their production values, so even if my little campaign for spiffy alternate hardcover versions fails in the end, I don't think it an unreasonable desire or expectation in the slightest.

I don't resent the digests, I merely resent there being only digests in a sea of hardcovers. Why should some Flaming Cobra or Traveller book get the full-sized hardcovers, but a primary, "flagship" product like Legend only gets the cheap, pocket-sized treatment? (Especially when they're supposedly just changed-name reprints of the previous high quality printings.) A less expensive alternative is a nice touch, but not only that. You're welcome to your Yugo, now show me to my Porsche! :P

If all else fails, I'll just stick with the RQII books. Supposedly the content is pretty much the same, and they are the kind of product I'm willing/wanting to pay for. That'll work until Legend comes out with something completely new and original, and then I'm screwed. lol
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby duncan_disorderly » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:54 am

Kurgan wrote: One of the things that first attracted me to Mongoose was their production values,
:o
I've always found one of the most off-putting aspects of Mongoose to be their production values - badly edited (MRQ1 Core rulebook, MRQ1 Cults books in particular), Useless indexes, pathetic maps, atrocious layout. Many of the early books were Hardbacked pamphlets where the cover was thicker than the content, and the latter (in house) hardbacks had their famous curly covers.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby duncan_disorderly » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:57 am

Kurgan wrote:Title says it all. I want 'em, and I'm betting you want 'em, too. :)
No. I didn't want them for MRQ2 either.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Bifford » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:34 am

Print out the 66p (1$) pdf at home on A4 paper then get it bound at any number of places.

Personally I've printed to A4 then put the sheets into those a4 plastic ringbinder sleeves and they are in a ringbinder and easy to access.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Simulacrum » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:53 am

I'm sticking with large format for AoT for now. Apart from anything else, it helps for the very lovely maps etc, and I like a nice cover (but probably SB for the companion). I'll look at breaking the first two books down into digest format for those who want that sort of thing later in the year, but the first two large format books would need at least 3, maybe 4 digests, so it's not just a quick reformat and print job.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby RangerDan » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:30 am

Simulacrum,

AoT is a gorgeous book, probably the most attractive Mongoose book I own.
A lot of it is down to the great cover art... looking forward to more on the Iron Companion!
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Piperdog » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:22 pm

I am all for the leather covers! Really, just make it identical to the digest version.....just black leather and shiny silver. YES.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby DrBargle » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:07 pm

I'm all for well-produced budget books. The turn to RPG books becoming £50+ art books was, Realms of Chaos notwithstanding, a mistake in my opinion. RPG books, particularly the core rule books, should be as accessible as possible.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby danskmacabre » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:52 pm

Yeah would love to see a leatherbound A5 sized copy of Legend core rules.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Kurgan » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:58 pm

I've always found one of the most off-putting aspects of Mongoose to be their production values - badly edited (MRQ1 Core rulebook, MRQ1 Cults books in particular), Useless indexes, pathetic maps, atrocious layout. Many of the early books were Hardbacked pamphlets where the cover was thicker than the content, and the latter (in house) hardbacks had their famous curly covers.
Well, I suppose I was lucky in that regard. Although I was referring to the physical books, not the content, I do recall running across the odd "oops" here and there. But overall my experience with the books themselves has been a good one. Solid covers, tight bindings, cleanly cut pages, etc. It was my love of Paranoia that got me here originally, but I was later drawn to the RQI books about halfway through their run. Probably would've delved deeper into other lines, but truly loathed d20, so avoided anything related to it like the plague.

Unrelated to RQ/Legend, I will say I've been heavily disappointed with the bland covers of the new Paranoia modules. Jim Holloway's covers have always been half the fun of getting a new book.
I'm all for well-produced budget books. The turn to RPG books becoming £50+ art books was, Realms of Chaos notwithstanding, a mistake in my opinion. RPG books, particularly the core rule books, should be as accessible as possible.
I agree, but I also believe it can be just as poor a decision in either direction. Too much flash and cost is just silly, but make a book too simple, bland, artless and/or colorless and it's not going to be breaking any sales records or winning popularity contests anytime soon. Like it or not, the industry has known for years that the package is more important than what's inside, and RPG books with lots of pretty artwork sell better, by far, than their generic, no-frills counterparts.

Some excellent examples of good printings with fair, reasonable prices would be Alderac's 7th Sea line, or maybe the Blue Planet (v2) books produced by FFG. With 7th Sea you had the base core books, nice and beefy but not unwieldy, with pleasant appropriate artwork and nice, colorful, glossy covers, followed by inexpensive softcover supplements, each carrying nice internal artwork and simply amazing painted covers. Love 'em. The Blue Planet books had nice color covers, and were released in both hardcover and softcover versions so we could choose our preferred format. Good pricing, not too cheap, not too expensive, and a marvelous product. It's that sort of middle ground level of perfection that I'm drawn to. (The RQII books, although lacking actual artwork for the covers, still went above-and-beyond in my opinion, and we just as superb, if not even classier.)
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Simulacrum » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:43 pm

RangerDan wrote:Simulacrum,

AoT is a gorgeous book, probably the most attractive Mongoose book I own.
A lot of it is down to the great cover art... looking forward to more on the Iron Companion!
Appreciation always appreciated...
Kurgan wrote:I'm an old-school gamer. I consider PDFs a convenience, but no substitute for the "real thing" (and the prices are ridiculous), and I simply dislike digests. Gimme a big, heavy book to spread open on the table and I'm happy as the proverbial clam.
A can relate to that. I like the big books for nostalgic and old-school reasons. An RPG book is for me more than the sum of the words contained. I want it to convey a little more to me than that. If I actually, really want the product I want a pretty, physical version. If that product is not pretty to the extent that the RQI Lankhmar cover is not pretty, I probably won't want it enough to buy it.

On the other hand, my desk at home is surrounded by stacks of such RPG books and boxed sets -while I'm writing stuff (and particularly if on my laptop on the train) it is very helpful to instead have the pdf to quickly open up on the same work screen for checking a rule, and next best is reaching for the digest.

Generally I will buy PDFs if they are cheap, either for ready reference or because I will probably buy stuff on pdf I don't want enough to have in hard copy.
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Kurgan » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:49 pm

Y'know, I couldn't find the right words until seeing your comment, but yeah, if I like a game, I really want the book to somehow reflect the personality of the game or setting, or at least have some sort of personality of its own. Not literally, of course, but you get my meaning. :)
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby alex_greene » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:58 pm

I'd love a compromise - a leatherette slipon cover to wrap around my physical copy.

Actually, that would make it look as if I was carrying round a copy of the Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows from the movie The Ninth Gate ... you know, Mongoose could swing that with an omnibus edition: Legend core rulebook, Arms of Legend, Monsters of Legend, the Spirit Magic article and, say, Arcania of Legend: Blood Magic, with internal art after the manner of medieval woodcuts and a plain black leatherette cover ... a chap can dream ...
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Re: Leatherbound Legend Hardcovers: Pretty please?!?! :)

Postby Mankcam » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:16 am

I love the digest size for the gaming table, and the digest cost for the wallet. But my bookcase would really love to see LEGEND in all it's hardcover glory, I think a LEGEND core rules omnibus is a great idea, a huge weighty tome that has all the essential rules under one cover, like the core rules, the arms rules, the monsters rules, arcana rules and perhaps the empires rules.

A large black leatherette tome with gold gilded corners and title, perhaps with some new full-colour plates. Something to rival or beat those limited edition Chaosium Call of Cthuhlu tomes floating about.

Yes, a niches market perhaps. Yes, I would certainly pay for one...

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