A Dead Man's Magic ?

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rust
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A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby rust » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:03 am

This has probably been asked before, but unfortunately I did
not find the thread.

When a sorcerer enchants an item he has to transfer a num-
ber of magic points to the item, these magic points "power"
the item and are no longer available for other purposes whi-
le the item exists.

Well, what happens to the item when the sorcerer dies and
can no longer provide the magic points to power the item ?
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby Fonso » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:15 am

I remember reading about this in the forum before, but not where.

I think that the enchantment continues working until is broken or disenchanted. It is not necessary the creator is still alive at all.
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby Simulacrum » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:54 am

I'd have to find it - but I think under standard Legend enchanting the item may persist or may not. Given it's a MP dedication, not POW, there's no specific logic for this persistence, it just may hang around for arcane reasons.

Under AoT enchanting where the characteristic points are permanently sacrificed it certainly does stay around unless conditioned not to. A sorcerer who knows his death is imminent may therefor dump a lot of stats into an enchantment and make something really big (of course he'll probably hang on to his INT, POW and CHA as he'll need those in the afterlife)
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby alex_greene » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:11 pm

Actually, you're the first to open the thread.

The decision rests with the Game Master, and until we get a GM's guide for Legend you may rule it either way.

The GM could stipulate a default setting, namely that the enchantment will outlast the creator and only cease when the item bearing the enchantment matrix has finally been destroyed, which could require it to be thrown into a volcano or something.

Other settings, which could be stated at the beginning, could be settings like the following:-

X Wishes: The enchantment does its thing X times, then expires. The enchanted item turns to worthless dross, rots into dirt or crumbles into sand. At the end of a natural termination the magic points return to the caster, no matter where the item is when its job is done.

Expiry Date: The enchantment has a finite lifespan, e.g. "until the Moon reaches its fullness once again thrice" (i.e. three Lunar months measured from the phase of the Moon on the night of the enchantment) and when that lifespan comes to an end the enchantment ends. The enchanted item turns to worthless dross, rots into dirt or crumbles into sand. At the end of a natural termination the magic points return to the caster, no matter where the item is when its job is done.

Until No Longer Needed: The enchantment has been set up to provide a lasting, permanent effect such as protection from something. When that something no longer exists, or when the spell effect is no longer needed, the enchantment expires, as above.

Lifespan Clause: The enchantment lasts for the lifetime of the person who contributed the Magic Points. When the person dies, the enchantment expires, as above.

Perhaps if you include such a termination clause, the entire enchantment would only cost 1 permanent Magic Point no matter how many it would normally cost (but it would still require the full amount of time to enchant as if you were going to spend all those Magic Points anyway). You could stipulate that such a clause adds a -20% penalty to the Sorcery (Grimoire) spell but does not require the allocation of a Manipulation factor to the enchantment.

Thoughts?
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby rust » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:08 pm

If there is no rule for this, I think my houserule will be that the item
ceases to function when the sorcerer dies, but that any other sorce-
rer can "revive" the item by spending the same number of his magic
points to "power" it which the creator of the item had to spend to en-
chant it.
The (small) advantage for the second sorcerer would be that he does
not have to know the spell used to enchant the item, he only has to
spend the magic points required to "power" the item.
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby alex_greene » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm

Gritty Fantasy - items remaining behind stay alive after the creator dies. They remain potent forever. People will flock to auctions selling off the sorcerer's possessions, hoping to bid for his choicest enchanted items.

Fairy Tale Fantasy - whatever malign spells the wicked sorcerer enchanted die with him as his body dramatically implodes and rots before crumbling into dust that blows away (apart from one ring that glows and goes BLING as a gloved hand picks it up while Max von Sydow laughs contemptuously in the distance ... or is it one of The Master's minions?). Skies clear. Trees spring back to life. The Kingdom springs back up from being a cold ruin into glowing majesty in the space of a single breath.

Depends on what your GM thinks works best - what he can pull off and make it look cool.
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby sdavies2720 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:00 pm

I'd have items stay enchanted, but also keep the enchanter's spirit stay tied / chained to the item. It would be difficult for the mage to move on to the next life (or whatever) as long as the item stayed enchanted. So a mage that knows he will die soon might try to gather his items together so that they could be destroyed (or specify that they be burned in his pyre), or purposefully create something new (so that he could stick around).

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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby Marrethiel » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:46 am

alex_greene wrote:... Lifespan Clause: The enchantment lasts for the lifetime of the person who contributed the Magic Points. When the person dies, the enchantment expires, as above.

Perhaps if you include such a termination clause, the entire enchantment would only cost 1 permanent Magic Point no matter how many it would normally cost (but it would still require the full amount of time to enchant as if you were going to spend all those Magic Points anyway). You could stipulate that such a clause adds a -20% penalty to the Sorcery (Grimoire) spell but does not require the allocation of a Manipulation factor to the enchantment.

Thoughts?
I think in a world where there is an after life, as a mage I would want to take all my MP's with me. I would not be leaving any behind for those "livies". So I could imagine a world where the MP's would normally stay in the item and possibly decay over many generations. However mages have learnt to have a condition of say "This item will cease to contain my magic points one year and a day after my death." This would allow time for resurrection, you wouldn't want all those items undone because of a short break from this world.

This raises an interesting and possibly related side point. In a world with an after life, which is essentially a different plane or dimension, what happens when you leave? The world rule could be simply that leaving the dimension that the item is in will weaken it, one year and a day later the item expires. There could be caveats for powerful or purpose built items. ie a beacon that sits in the Astral Plane.
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby alex_greene » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:01 pm

Of course there's another possibility.

Every creation, every enchantment, of a sorcerer represents a manifestation of the philosophy outlined in the Grimoire / Philosophy / Path espoused by the sorcerer.

As a solid, tangible assertion of the truth of that philosophy, it is as solid and true as the precepts outlined in the grimoire - and therefore should outlast the sorcerer's life as an artifact of the Path, as true in a century as it is true during the sorcerer's life.

In practical terms, the enchantment will last until it has been broken into pieces and all the pieces burnt. Even if, say, a sorcerer's staff is broken up into seven smaller fragments they could still be brought together and reassembled (Form/Set and a Craft skill greater than that of the sorcerer) and the newly-reforged artifact would still work, good as new.
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Re: A Dead Man's Magic ?

Postby Marrethiel » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:16 am

alex_greene wrote:...Every creation, every enchantment, of a sorcerer represents a manifestation of the philosophy outlined in the Grimoire / Philosophy / Path espoused by the sorcerer...
Oh what a tangled web this could be.
One sorc's gear lasts forever, the other has a philosophy that his MP's are his and he isn't leaving them behind. You could have a world where there is no set lore for magic item perminancy.
Wow, I'd never thought of this before. You would have two mages trying to sell a +1 Staff but at vastly different costs... lol

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