Dual wielding

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PhilHibbs
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Dual wielding

Postby PhilHibbs » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:12 pm

I was surprised to notice, in the Legend changes document, that both MRQ2 and Legend state that a second weapon in the off-hand must be one size rating smaller than the main hand weapon. I think that's a shame, I've had characters that have used two broadswords, and one of the characters in my current game uses two katanas.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Mixster » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 pm

I think it can be skipped in games that aren't highly realistic. And for small weapons it does feel weird.

But I'd think using 2 big weapons is pretty darned hard. I could see someone realistically run around with 2 short swords or Falchions, but a Longsword in each hand just seems odd.

However, your r̶u̶n̶e̶q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶ Legend may vary
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby danskmacabre » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am

I've tried using 2 broadswords in Viking Re-enactment.
It's very difficult to use effectively. One sword just always seemed to get in the way.
I don't see many people (and none consistently) using 2 broadswords in Re-enactment.

However using a broadaxe and hand axe works well.
Or a Broadsword and Scramseax (Long knife) also works well.
Or just 2 handaxes.

But like said earlier, that's in RL, in an RPG if I wanted to allow 2 swords, just allow it I suppose.
I've changed a few rules in Legend/MRQ2 that I wasn't comfortable with anyway.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Piperdog » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 am

Two weapon fighting takes formal training, which includes systematic pattern development coinciding with drills used to develop the dexterity of the offhand to bring it on par with the dominant hand. The patterns include simple solo drills all the way up to complex two person drills. One of the most influential combat arts in my life was the Filipino systems of Arnis and Kali. (watch some youtube videos on this to get an idea of what I am talking about) But to get back on track, the system stays with light weapons, many of the longest bladed weapons being machete type blades or something closer to a gladius. Being the crazy American that I am, I have used long swords in Arnis practice and it is hard on the forearms and wrists. It takes serious strength, not just dexterity, to wield larger, often unbalanced, weapons in intricate and complex movements.

I haven't decided what the score will have to be, but in my game, I will only allow dual wield styles with two medium weapons if the character has an adequate strength and dexterity skill. A different idea would be to allow two medium weapons but give a penalty to one or both weapons.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby danskmacabre » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:25 am

Yes I suppose in RL with specialised training it's doable. learing sort of weapon KAtas.
Maybe an Advanced skill in an RPG?
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Simulacrum » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:53 am

If you use combat styles that cover a range of related weapons, then you can model something very specialist/difficult by having the player devote a specialist combat style only to their quirky combo. I'd also suggest having the minimum dex and str requirements for the offhand weapon raised, perhaps by + 3 each.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby PhilHibbs » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:02 am

danskmacabre wrote:Yes I suppose in RL with specialised training it's doable. learing sort of weapon KAtas.
Maybe an Advanced skill in an RPG?
The character is the son of a rich merchant who made his fortune from trading with Kralorela, so I said he could have had an exotic personal tutor like Syrio in Game of Thrones.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby danskmacabre » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:14 pm

That works, I also like Simulacrum's idea of increasing the DX/STR reqirements.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby sdavies2720 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:44 pm

Simulacrum wrote:If you use combat styles that cover a range of related weapons, then you can model something very specialist/difficult by having the player devote a specialist combat style only to their quirky combo. I'd also suggest having the minimum dex and str requirements for the offhand weapon raised, perhaps by + 3 each.
We haven't had a lot of two-weapon wielders in our game (perhaps because many characters got magical shields in an early heroquest). But I think this is a great way to model it. I like rules that don't say, "no you can't" or "you can but it's been cracked". This one says, "you can, but there are challenges that may cause you problems, but that can be overcome"

Nice.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby duncan_disorderly » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:11 am

a second weapon in the off-hand must be one size rating smaller than the main hand weapon

This would cause a bit of a problem if you wanted to fight with a dagger in each hand (or in a Japanese (or TMNT) game, a Sai...)

A general rule that the second weapon must be short-sword sized or smaller, with exceptions possible for more cinematic games, and/or where a convincing case can be made by the player for an exception...
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby PhilHibbs » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:15 am

duncan_disorderly wrote:A general rule that the second weapon must be short-sword sized or smaller, with exceptions possible for more cinematic games, and/or where a convincing case can be made by the player for an exception...
The convincing case that my player made was, "I want to play a guy with two katanas", I said, "what, like Johnny Mo is Kill lBill?" and he said "yeah."
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby soltakss » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:42 pm

I like giants with a tree trunk in each hand.

Presumably they have to be small tree trunks, or one tree and one bush.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Deleriad » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:02 pm

soltakss wrote:I like giants with a tree trunk in each hand.

Presumably they have to be small tree trunks, or one tree and one bush.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Da Boss » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:24 pm

PhilHibbs wrote:
duncan_disorderly wrote:A general rule that the second weapon must be short-sword sized or smaller, with exceptions possible for more cinematic games, and/or where a convincing case can be made by the player for an exception...
The convincing case that my player made was, "I want to play a guy with two katanas", I said, "what, like Johnny Mo is Kill lBill?" and he said "yeah."
A friend of mine who has done quite a bit of martial arts has tried using two good sized swords at the same time - he was saying its HARD - not just stopping yourself chopping bits of yourself but also moving your feet as well.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Mixster » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:30 pm

PhilHibbs wrote:
duncan_disorderly wrote:A general rule that the second weapon must be short-sword sized or smaller, with exceptions possible for more cinematic games, and/or where a convincing case can be made by the player for an exception...
The convincing case that my player made was, "I want to play a guy with two katanas", I said, "what, like Johnny Mo is Kill lBill?" and he said "yeah."
And that is probably the best argument ever. Who cares for realism when you can be awesome? I'd say let him do it, as long as he has enough strength to use a katana one-handed. I can't see how it can become a problem, since in all ways that matter a Longsword (or Flail or Shortspear) + Shield is probably better.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Greg Smith » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:34 am

Samurai of the Tokugawa era tended to wear two swords - katana and wakazashi. Not sure if they used them together. They were known as daisho, meaning long and short, IIRC.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Mixster » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:49 am

Greg Smith wrote:Samurai of the Tokugawa era tended to wear two swords - katana and wakazashi. Not sure if they used them together. They were known as daisho, meaning long and short, IIRC.
I'd think they did, since "the Book of Five Rings" speaks about how to use both together. However, there is no mention of using two "long-swords"
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby Da Boss » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:16 am

Indeed - although I think most of the time one sword was used - 2HD

Also didn't many post Roman warriors use Sword and Axe as well as Sword/Spear and Shield?

Had not thought about the two knives / daggers (or even two pistols!) - yeah perhaps it should read:

"a second weapon in the off-hand must be one size rating smaller than the main hand weapon, unless both are small?"
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby PhilHibbs » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:01 am

Da Boss wrote:perhaps it should read:

"a second weapon in the off-hand must be one size rating smaller than the main hand weapon, unless both are small?"
It does say that. I just didn't include that bit because I was talking about two katanas.
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Re: Dual wielding

Postby duncan_disorderly » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:05 pm

PhilHibbs wrote:
duncan_disorderly wrote:A general rule that the second weapon must be short-sword sized or smaller, with exceptions possible for more cinematic games, and/or where a convincing case can be made by the player for an exception...
The convincing case that my player made was, "I want to play a guy with two katanas", I said, "what, like Johnny Mo is Kill lBill?" and he said "yeah."
That's exactly the sort of convincing case I had in mind...

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