RuneQuest 6

Discover the Legend RPG, Mongoose's fantasy game.
mwsasser
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Postby mwsasser » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:47 pm

If Runequest 6 focuses solely on Glorantha then I won't be very interested in it. Sorry guys. I might be interested in rules tweaks but not source material useless to my campaign. Perhaps I am not the only person who feels this way although I know many of you live and breath Glorantha. To me it's just a weird world but if it makes some of you happy then go for it. :) With Age of Treason coming out soon I feel the bones of the current system will be fleshed out more and that makes me feel good about where the system is currently.
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Postby danskmacabre » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:26 pm

I think Loz has already stated somewhere that RQ6 will not have Glorantha integrated into the core rules.
Glorantha will be a separate book, obviously hanging off RQ6 .
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Postby gran_orco » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:03 am

danskmacabre wrote:I think Loz has already stated somewhere that RQ6 will not have Glorantha integrated into the core rules.
Glorantha will be a separate book, obviously hanging off RQ6 .
Yes, RQ 6 will be generic.
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Postby mwsasser » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:15 am

Then I will probably be buying RQ6 and Mongoose's new materials. More solid data can always be useful, especially when it's differentiated from Glorantha.
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Postby Dan True » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:00 am

gran_orco wrote:
danskmacabre wrote:I think Loz has already stated somewhere that RQ6 will not have Glorantha integrated into the core rules.
Glorantha will be a separate book, obviously hanging off RQ6 .
Yes, RQ 6 will be generic.
Even more reason why I really can't see the reason for two systems... If Pete and Loz wishes creative control, then why not get reassigned as freelancers at Mongoose and work on Legend? Or for Mongoose to bite the sour apple and accept RQ6 as the system. Or for Mongoose to continue the RQ franchise, just as a generic system and let others make the Glorantha stuff - as the only official reason for legend was that it couldn't be called RQ without Glorantha... (then how can RQ6 be generic? Did they change the license?).

In my view, having to almost equal systems compete for both customers, but more importantly, shelve space and distributive power - can only end bad. The major warehouses will almost surely focus on only one, where Mongoose IMHO stands stronger.
I will most likely buy both systems, as I earn a fair wage and am eager to support. But I think the average consumer won't be willing to support both system, if nothing else then simply because both will rarely be available in the store.

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
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Postby RosenMcStern » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:20 am

Dan True wrote:If Pete and Loz wishes creative control, then why not get reassigned as freelancers at Mongoose and work on Legend?
AFAIK, they were already freelancers for Mongoose when they quit MGP and joined Moon Design.
Or for Mongoose to bite the sour apple and accept RQ6 as the system.
I doubt this will happen. But I would be happy to be proven wrong :D
Or for Mongoose to continue the RQ franchise, just as a generic system and let others make the Glorantha stuff - as the only official reason for legend was that it couldn't be called RQ without Glorantha... (then how can RQ6 be generic? Did they change the license?).
Mongoose has already discussed this with Issaries, and the conclusion was the termination of the agreement.

As you can see, all roads have already been explored, and found unviable. The only three ways left are:

a) the death of the RQ franchise

b) Mongoose gateway-licensing RQ from another publisher

c) competition between MGP's own d100 (Legend) and the new RuneQuest

I hope Matt did not expect a) to be the end of this story. It was clear from the beginning that Issaries would re-license the franchise to a publisher of Greg's choice.
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Postby PhilHibbs » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:22 am

Dan True wrote:...as the only official reason for legend was that it couldn't be called RQ without Glorantha... (then how can RQ6 be generic? Did they change the license?).
I don't think the requirement is that "RuneQuest must be tied to Glorantha as the default setting", but that "The RuneQuest licence and the Glorantha licence go together as a bundle". So if Mongoose or The DM want to publish Gloranthan material for the D100 system, they have to use the RuneQuest trademark. And if they want to publish RuneQuest, they have to also publish Gloranthan material for it, but not necessarily integrated in the core rulebook.

I'm not sure about this, but that's the impression that I get from my observation of events. Maybe it's a big coincidence that the two have always gone together and that Mongoose chose to drop both trademarks at the same time.

Another advantage of The DM publishing RuneQuest & Glorantha is that a number of people are still bitter at Mongoose for the mess that they made with MRQ1 and during the transition to MRQ2. The DM have a clean break from that.
Dan True wrote:In my view, having to almost equal systems compete for both customers, but more importantly, shelve space and distributive power - can only end bad. The major warehouses will almost surely focus on only one, where Mongoose IMHO stands stronger.
Mongoose might win that fight but it would probably be a pyrrhic victory. And it isn't foregone, the RuneQuest brand still carries a high degree of affection in the industry.
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Postby rust » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:32 am

Dan True wrote: Or for Mongoose to bite the sour apple and accept RQ6 as the system.
This would seem logical and reasonable. This way Mongoose could leave
the further development of the system to Loz and Pete and concentrate
on the development of material for Mongoose's settings.

But "logical and reasonable" normally means that it will almost certainly
not happen.
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Postby Dan True » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:18 am

PhilHibbs wrote:
Dan True wrote:In my view, having to almost equal systems compete for both customers, but more importantly, shelve space and distributive power - can only end bad. The major warehouses will almost surely focus on only one, where Mongoose IMHO stands stronger.
Mongoose might win that fight but it would probably be a pyrrhic victory. And it isn't foregone, the RuneQuest brand still carries a high degree of affection in the industry.
I agree, but no matter what the outcome I will believe it to be a pyrrhic victory. The whole brand and player base would stand so much stronger if there weren't too many cooks.

On another note, the RQ name probably still has a feel to it for many older players, who remember the old days. Sadly, I believe that if you really want a game to break through (not D&D-like breakthrough, but to have a solid and dependable customer base so your system can't be put in danger overnight), you need to get some younger players too. Both DM and mongoose seem to appreciate this now, as they have realised Glorantha is a hard world to get into, especially for the wow-generation...
But, sadly I believe that the affection for RQ in the industry, won't bring home many $$ for the system in itself... The system needs to be sold as being a great fantasy system in itself, regardless of its name.

Now, if DM and Mongoose could then at least agree to what changes should occur in Legend/RQ6, such that the two systems will be almost 100% interchangeable right off the box, then some damage can be contained - because then each book can include a reference to the other, warning them that the product is interchangeable and almost itentical.
The problem is that the differences probably won't be that big, especially for us here on the forum who read the RQ/Legend news... but, for players outside of this group, who don't follow industry news for various reasons - then this can lead to major confusions or waste of money when they buy that new corebook with no new stuff in it.

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
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Postby duncan_disorderly » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:55 pm

Dan True wrote:If Pete and Loz wishes creative control, then why not get reassigned as freelancers at Mongoose and work on Legend?
If you want creative control then working as a freelancer for someone else is absolutely the worse way to go about it, as you have no say in what direction they choose to take. You either turn in the product they have assigned you or you don't get paid. As a staff member you at least have a chance of influencing the company direction (amybe because you are the one handing out assignements to freelancers
Dan True wrote:Or for Mongoose to bite the sour apple and accept RQ6 as the system.
Not impossible, but unlikely. Mongoose dropped all their d20 support in favour of RQ so that they published the system. Leaving it in hte hands of a third party means you are exposed if anything happens to them, or if they choose to go in a direction that conflicts with your own.
Dan True wrote:Or for Mongoose to continue the RQ franchise, just as a generic system and let others make the Glorantha stuff - as the only official reason for legend was that it couldn't be called RQ without Glorantha... (then how can RQ6 be generic? Did they change the license?).
This can't happen now as the Mongoose licence to produce RQ has expired and a new licence granted to the Design Mechanism. I don't know whether the decision to end both the RQ and the Glorantha licences together was made by Mongoose or imposed by Issaries/Greg Stafford.

There is no logical reason why compamy A can't have the RQ licence and allow company B to produce material for it (whether as an "OGL" type licence or a negotiated deal), and for company B to have the "glorantha" licence. However Greg may prefer to keep them together for ease of administration.

Mongoose may have felt that the RQ name was "tainted" by association with Glorantha. If they dropped Glorantha completely, but kept RQ they may have felt they would struggle to grow the game in the face of people who would still say "Runequest - isn't that the game with the Ducks - no thanks"
Dan True wrote: In my view, having to almost equal systems compete for both customers, but more importantly, shelve space and distributive power - can only end bad. The major warehouses will almost surely focus on only one, where Mongoose IMHO stands stronger.
I thought this too - until I saw that Cubicle 7 will be distributing HQ, Sartar and Sartar Companion later in the year - this makes it a much more even competition, and Mongooses previous history of poor quality control may offset its longer history...





I will most likely buy both systems, as I earn a fair wage and am eager to support. But I think the average consumer won't be willing to support both system, if nothing else then simply because both will rarely be available in the store.

- Dan[/quote]
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Postby msprange » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:39 am

I don't really want to get into this, but there are a few bits and pieces it might be worth clearing up. A spot of Rumour Control.
AFAIK, they were already freelancers for Mongoose when they quit MGP and joined Moon Design.
They were both full-time during their tenure with us.
It was clear from the beginning that Issaries would re-license the franchise to a publisher of Greg's choice.
This was absolutely _not_ how it was explained to us. We were told the RPG licence would sunset for (quote) 'a couple of years' while work was being done in other areas, such as computer games.

I should point out that this did not come from Pete or Loz, who have done exactly what I would have in their position. Wish them nothing but the best of luck.
This way Mongoose could leave the further development of the system to Loz and Pete and concentrate on the development of material for Mongoose's settings.
I cannot think of any good reason why they should or would want to do that.
I believe that the affection for RQ in the industry, won't bring home many $$ for the system in itself
This is a fundamental problem for a publisher. There is a good reason we have moved the system away from big hardbacks, to a sub $20 line - cheaper for the gamer, allowing them to 'take a punt' and perhaps try supplements/sourcebooks they might not splash out $40-50 for, and cheaper for us, allowing the game to be sustained for a long, long time without worrying whether every book will pay for itself or not.
I don't know whether the decision to end both the RQ and the Glorantha licences together was made by Mongoose or imposed by Issaries/Greg Stafford.
Never really a factor, and we had long, long conversations about this. 2nd Age Glorantha was not really going anywhere, as the vast majority saw no reason to switch from 3rd Age, not even for 'background' purposes. Which was a shame, as there has been some really great work done for 2nd Age.


At the end of the day, we have no axe to grind whatsoever. I personally think that 'One System' is better for the RQ market, though there is an argument to be made that it is already fractured with RQ, BRP, and all the spin-offs.

But, as that is unlikely, we can do the next best thing - take the system and run with it, and make sure it is well supported (upon release, Legend will already have Deus Vult, Elric, Wraith Recon and, very quickly, Vikings and the Spider God's Bride - we've already had requests to update Samurai and Pirates, and they seem like great candidates, plus there is Hawkmoon and Corum to look towards as well).

Lots of worlds, kick-ass system, great low, low price.

I think Legend has a fair bit going for it...
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
PhilHibbs
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Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:33 am

...and Matt comes out of the gate fighting! Thanks for the update. I can see how this thread is perhaps not exactly the sort of thing that you want to read, but you've lived up to your promise to communicate.
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Postby Vagni » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:05 am

Thanks Matt. I admire your openness and honesty on the subject. :D

As this is on Mongooses forum I shall keep my comments Mongoose-centric, as I have commented elsewhere on Pete and Loz in a similar positive vein.

So, as a committed follower of RQ for 25+ years, I will be avidly following both systems and supporting both as far as I can.

I also have something of warm affection for Mongoose, after all, RQ would still be largely a 'dead' system without them I feel. RQII is a superb system and I'm glad I have the leather-bound copies of it and it's supplements.

As Legend is the new incarnation of this, then it has my full support too.

So, both Legend and RQ6 will still feature on my RPG shopping lists.

Long live the Legend that is RuneQuest!! :wink: :D
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Postby Deleriad » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:18 am

As someone who has grown up with RQ and is a great fan of the work done for RQII it's good to hear Matt talk.

I don't personally see any huge issue with the 'fragmentation' of RQ. If anything I suspect that it will lead to more product to choose from. I can see it being more of a problem for the publishers in that although I'm sure the audience in total will grow, each publisher will get a smaller piece of the pie.

I suspect that I'll get most stuff that is published for both Legend and RQ6 and will almost certainly submit work for both lines. My own RQ will inevitably end up as a pick n mix of all my favourite bits.

Personally I hope that both lines (plus OpenQuest and BRP) evolve and branch into products that the different authors are best at while ensuring that they make a living.
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Postby DamonJynx » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:05 pm

It seems to me as a relative newcomer to D100 gaming, that ALL of the current systems, RQ, BRP, Openquest, Pendragon and others enjoy a substantial bit of cross-over as they are all derived in the core mechanic from RQ1 which evolved into BRP and the other systems mentioned. I don't see any reason why this won't continue to be the case. I know a lot of posters on this forum are also quite active on other forums, DM's and BRPCentral particularly.

From what I've read here and elsewhere most of us 'older' gamers have incomes that will allow us to indulge ourselves in various systems (digital or dead-tree) and in turn this will lead to support for both Legend and RQ6. Where the challenge lies for Mongoose and DM (Moon Design) is their marketing strategies aimed at creating 'new' customers for this excellent system (regardless of which badge it's wearing).

Personally, I think it leaves D&D for dead. To me it's makes much more sense and is inherently more logical while still retaining the abstraction necessary for simulation of real world activities. And if I was developing a marketing strategy for either company this is the market I would be targeting. I imagine there are a lot of gaming groups like mine who started playing 4e after a long history of D&D, becoming disillusioned with it's direction - which BTW caters to a younger gamer by combining elements of CTC games with Tabletop RPG's. I believe that's the 'strength' of D&D's current offering.

Sorry for the disjointed ramble...
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