Choose Location as a CM

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Aneirin
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Postby Aneirin » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:51 am

Yeah, choose location can be outshon at times. I was recently trying to fight this rather powerful monster, which didn't bother parrying most attacks as it had so much health it didn't need to. It did 1d6 + 1d20 damage and could impale, and had 4 combat manouvres. I was burning hero points to keep up and got lucky with hit making a few misses as I kept on smacking it in the head. Must have done over 20 damage to it's head, needed to make a reslience roll (which it passed), before it finally got me in it's mouth and ripped me a new one.

Problem was, it was a 4 legged beast. I tried to bleed it once, but it had a very high resilience. I was thinking of trying trip to get rid of some of it's combat actions making it stand up...but it was 4 legged and I guessed has a good athletics. I was tempted to go for impale...but scared of losing my weapon (which was the only thing that could hurt it)

I should have pressed my luck with bleed, if I got a lucky hit in I could have danced around it until it lost actions due to fatigue and took it out at my leisure. Though I don't think we were meant to be able to kill it anyway!
PhilHibbs
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Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:53 am

Mixster wrote:I still don't get why people think Choose Location is a good CM, I would much rather Trip, Impale or Disarm someone. The difference in HP is not enough to warrant choosing the head every time IMO.
Choose Location isn't always Choose Head, it's usually Choose The Same Location They Got Hit In Already. The end of level baddie in the GLS scenario went down in the first melee round from everyone choosing the same location (Chest, as it happens, since it started the fight with an injury there).
simonh
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Postby simonh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:42 pm

PhilHibbs wrote: Choose Location isn't always Choose Head, it's usually Choose The Same Location They Got Hit In Already. The end of level baddie in the GLS scenario went down in the first melee round from everyone choosing the same location (Chest, as it happens, since it started the fight with an injury there).
This is a big departure from previous editions of RQ. You used to be able to do an aimed blow, but at half your normal attack chance. Aimed blows seem to be the norm in RQ2, which changes the tactical situation a lot.

Simon Hibbs
Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:55 pm

simonh wrote:This is a big departure from previous editions of RQ. You used to be able to do an aimed blow, but at half your normal attack chance. Aimed blows seem to be the norm in RQ2, which changes the tactical situation a lot.

Simon Hibbs
This is true. However RQII (and MRQ1) doesn't have General Hit points, just locational ones. In RQ2/3 it didn't matter a massive amount if you hit different locations because the accumulative damage would KO a character even if the locational damage didn't. Anyone who played MRQ1 (which used a similar mechanic to RQ3 for aimed shots) will be more than familiar with fights that dragged on for ages until someone got lucky and hit a location for the second or third time.

However, choose location is only possible if an opponent misses their parry (or you critical and the opponent doesn't). Any time you choose location you give up the option to stab, bleed, disarm, stun, trip and so on. There is an "opportunity cost" to choosing a location which means that making the wrong choice can effectively waste the Combat Manoeuvre.
Morgan d'Barganfore
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Postby Morgan d'Barganfore » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:20 pm

Good points!
I'd suggest choose location is (most) effective as either chose <previously hit> location or as significantly lower armour location.

Bleed makes sense where time is on your side e.g. tough monster you get a high weapon skill test (i.e. "to hit" roll) or lots of cannon fodder and no reinforcements likely.

Impale or bypass armour are more likely candidates if you're under time pressure, e.g. reinforcements likely soon..
Aneirin
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Postby Aneirin » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:46 pm

So never lead with a choose location sounds like a good idea (unless their armour really sucks in one location) better off doing a better manouvre for an advantage, and continuing to hit the spot that you randomnly hit afterwards
Morgan d'Barganfore
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Postby Morgan d'Barganfore » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:56 pm

Yes, that's about it. But a lot depends on the tactical situation..

But as a generic comment, I'd suggest bypass depends on how heavy duty the weapon and armour are in relation to each other... e.g. sword with d8 damage versus chain AP5 (or better) on all locations would always bypass, but same sword versus AP3 or worse would almost never bypass. AP4 depends how you think your luck is running..
Mixster
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Postby Mixster » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:06 am

Aneirin wrote:So never lead with a choose location sounds like a good idea (unless their armour really sucks in one location) better off doing a better manouvre for an advantage, and continuing to hit the spot that you randomnly hit afterwards
As long as they haven't got cover, I agree with this.

Unless you don't want to kill your opponent that is. If you just want to immobilise him, it's properly a better idea to ram a spear up his behind and bleed him with your swords than just keep hitting him in the same spot.
Meep Meep
Morgan d'Barganfore
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Postby Morgan d'Barganfore » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:12 am

If the objective is to capture an opponent, I suppose a case could be made for preferring the use of choose location so that one avoids hitting the head/chest etc and only take out the peripherals.
DamonJynx
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Postby DamonJynx » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:16 am

Mixster wrote:
DamonJynx wrote:Well... I'm going to play RAW and let the PC's do as they will, however they had best pray their enemies don't get an offensive CM against them! See how they like a Greatsword in the head! And if they manage 2 CM's, Maximise damage as well!
Does hitting them in the head matter when you deal 16 + damage modifier? I think most PCs would go down from that. Especially if you used bypass armour instead of Choose Location.

I still don't get why people think Choose Location is a good CM, I would much rather Trip, Impale or Disarm someone. The difference in HP is not enough to warrant choosing the head every time IMO.
Unfortunately, not everyone plays the same as you. And BTW Maximise damage would be 8+1D8+DM, not 16, unless you used Maximise damage as both of your CM's.
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Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:15 pm

DamonJynx wrote:
Mixster wrote:
DamonJynx wrote:Well... I'm going to play RAW and let the PC's do as they will, however they had best pray their enemies don't get an offensive CM against them! See how they like a Greatsword in the head! And if they manage 2 CM's, Maximise damage as well!
Does hitting them in the head matter when you deal 16 + damage modifier? I think most PCs would go down from that. Especially if you used bypass armour instead of Choose Location.

I still don't get why people think Choose Location is a good CM, I would much rather Trip, Impale or Disarm someone. The difference in HP is not enough to warrant choosing the head every time IMO.
Unfortunately, not everyone plays the same as you. And BTW Maximise damage would be 8+1D8+DM, not 16, unless you used Maximise damage as both of your CM's.
Just running the numbers. Let's face it, getting a critical Hit from a Greatsword and missing the parry is not going to be fun. But say you have 6APs of Plate armour all over.

Maximise + head = 1D8+8 damage to the head. Say you have 5HPs in the head then you take an average of 6.5 damage after armour. Serious wound but it won't kill you.

Bypass armour + head. Average of 9 damage after armour. Close to a major wound and decapitation.

Maximise damage + bypass armour. 12.5 damage after armour. Average major wound everywhere unless you get hit in the chest.
Morgan d'Barganfore
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Postby Morgan d'Barganfore » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:27 pm

I'm using longsword so the 2xd8 doesn't apply for me..

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