Wayfarer

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alex_greene
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Wayfarer

Postby alex_greene » Thu May 26, 2011 11:52 am

Okay. So, RQ engine, check. Systems, check. Chargen, check.

Setting.

H'mm, setting ...

The phrase "... from the ground up" suddenly acquires a whole new meaning.

It's not RuneQuest, so you don't have to worry about acquiring and learning Runes. It's not RuneQuest, so adventures don't have to be quests.

You can design your own, complete, setting, systems, concepts entirely new to the game - or indeed any fantasy game. You can set scales for magic-rich, magic-average, magic-starved, heroic, High, Low, Comedic and even Mature Fantasy.

You can set the eras to anything you like, too. Primordial (analogues of the early Neolithic), Early Civilised (analogues of the Greco - Roman, early Persian, early Dynastic Egyptian, Babylonian, early Dynastic Chinese eras), Middle Civilised (Renaissance), Modern ... Future, Far Future ... Alternate Timeline ... Anthropomorphic Fantasy (talking animals ...)

The Wayfarer engine has massive, massive potential. Discuss.
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Postby DamonJynx » Thu May 26, 2011 12:05 pm

I tend to agree. Although it would be good if Mongoose maintained support for its current fantasy settings; Elric, Wraith Recon, Deus Vult, Clockwork & Chivalry (great name BTW) and the soon to be released Age of Treason.

I think with the number of talented writers and designers out there releasing it as OGL may give rise to another D20-like explosion of product. Which IMO would be a good thing. It certainly didn't hurt Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Malhavoc Press, Swords & Sorcery and many other fine games publishers.
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Postby butscharoni » Thu May 26, 2011 12:12 pm

I tend to agree.
The Versimilitude of RuneQuest is what makes the system so good.
And I really can't share the opinion of some folks that Glorantha hold sit back in some way. As someone who does not play Glorantha and knows only small bits about the setting, I never had the feeling when reading the rulebook that it was overly tied to that setting or specially written for it.
The rules in the core rulebook are pretty much universally usable in most fantasy settings and the parts that might not fit one specifically can just be cut out for that campaign.

The one thing were Runequest falls flat is in explaining this toolkit approach to GMs and give them examples of how to use it. So I am all for a book on setting design, world building and game mastering Runequest. And I think I am not alone with this wish. I am not sure, such a book would be the greatest bestseller, but it surely would "complete" the system and make it a great toolbox for times to come.
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Postby soltakss » Thu May 26, 2011 12:15 pm

RuneQuest was never really about Runes or Quests until Mongoose came along. Sure, they were mentioned along the way but were never central.

Wayfarer should do what d100 systems do best - provide a generic and simple rules system that works with almost any type of setting.

Settings can come later and don;t have to be specific to Wayfarer. It is possible to run a Wayfarer setting with BRP or OpenQuest, or a BRP setting with Wayfarer.

But, please don't get tied down with a "Wayfarer" setting.
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Postby PhilHibbs » Thu May 26, 2011 12:31 pm

soltakss wrote:But, please don't get tied down with a "Wayfarer" setting.
I don't know, "World of Wayfarer" has a nice ring to it, would be a good name for a MMO... <duck>
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Postby Dan True » Thu May 26, 2011 12:40 pm

PhilHibbs wrote: I don't know, "World of Wayfarer" has a nice ring to it, would be a good name for a MMO... <duck>
Roll the evade, to avoid the massive, massive bowl of bodily fluids being thrown your way now ;)

I tend to agree. If this system is initiated to the market the right way, it could become huge. It is really good mechanics - but it needs more content to ease new GMs and Player's into it, and it needs marketing.

My approach would be to launch a GMs guide / world builder / setting guide / using the system book. If Mongoose won't write it, I will - but I tend to favour officially sanctioned books which are actually printed. Me (or anyone) doing their own guide won't do much for new players away from this forum.

When the new books are launched, it should be followed up by proper markerting and happenings. If you have some sort of start-sale (to the sellers), so they can buy home a starting mass of books without worrying too much about future sales, they could have marketing events and start-up sales themselves. If you get the chance to buy a hyped system for 10$, why not give it a try?
However, if it's not hyped you'll most likely write it off as belonging to all the other trash that's at sale in the rpg industry.

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Postby DamonJynx » Thu May 26, 2011 12:49 pm

Dan True wrote:
PhilHibbs wrote: I don't know, "World of Wayfarer" has a nice ring to it, would be a good name for a MMO... <duck>
Roll the evade, to avoid the massive, massive bowl of bodily fluids being thrown your way now ;)

I tend to agree. If this system is initiated to the market the right way, it could become huge. It is really good mechanics - but it needs more content to ease new GMs and Player's into it, and it needs marketing.

My approach would be to launch a GMs guide / world builder / setting guide / using the system book. If Mongoose won't write it, I will - but I tend to favour officially sanctioned books which are actually printed. Me (or anyone) doing their own guide won't do much for new players away from this forum.

When the new books are launched, it should be followed up by proper markerting and happenings. If you have some sort of start-sale (to the sellers), so they can buy home a starting mass of books without worrying too much about future sales, they could have marketing events and start-up sales themselves. If you get the chance to buy a hyped system for 10$, why not give it a try?
However, if it's not hyped you'll most likely write it off as belonging to all the other trash that's at sale in the rpg industry.

- Dan
There is an interesting Chapter in the Elric core book for developing a "Plane" of the multiverse to run homebrew EC games in. That advice coupled with more generic world building stuff and other GM info would make a good book.
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Re: Wayfarer

Postby Hopeless » Thu May 26, 2011 3:00 pm

alex_greene wrote:Okay. So, RQ engine, check. Systems, check. Chargen, check.
You can design your own, complete, setting, systems, concepts entirely new to the game - or indeed any fantasy game. You can set scales for magic-rich, magic-average, magic-starved, heroic, High, Low, Comedic and even Mature Fantasy.
You can set the eras to anything you like, too. Primordial (analogues of the early Neolithic), Early Civilised (analogues of the Greco - Roman, early Persian, early Dynastic Egyptian, Babylonian, early Dynastic Chinese eras), Middle Civilised (Renaissance), Modern ... Future, Far Future ... Alternate Timeline ... Anthropomorphic Fantasy (talking animals ...)
The Wayfarer engine has massive, massive potential. Discuss.
So would this mean the main rulebook would deal with the basic character generation with a separate book to deal with magic, another for a bestiary guide, another to deal with specific settings which will then have its own magic book, specific location books, perhaps even a book dealing with technological differences say having one side possessing ironclads, another zeppelins, etc, anyone care to post limits?

Thats a heck of a lot of potential areas to cover, has this even approached playtesting phase even if its largely using mrq2 there must be some areas that need to be fine tuned or changed since glorantha isn't available.

Have I missed anything?
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Re: Wayfarer

Postby alex_greene » Thu May 26, 2011 5:48 pm

Hopeless wrote:So would this mean the main rulebook would deal with the basic character generation with a separate book to deal with magic, another for a bestiary guide, another to deal with specific settings which will then have its own magic book, specific location books, perhaps even a book dealing with technological differences say having one side possessing ironclads, another zeppelins, etc, anyone care to post limits?

Thats a heck of a lot of potential areas to cover, has this even approached playtesting phase even if its largely using mrq2 there must be some areas that need to be fine tuned or changed since glorantha isn't available.
IOW ... an entire game line.

Multiple settings - as many as you wish to support.

Settings books. The equivalent of Traveller's books High Guard, Psion, Agent etc.

Supplements. The equivalent of the Traveller Supplements - characters, Patrons, a bestiary, an equipment guide, different kinds of vehicles - any genre. Steampunk devices (a gilded carriage pulled by a great bronze minotaur whose golem heart is a beating Aeolipile fuelled by alcohol burned in a chamber containing a special catalyst), high fantasy spell ships ("Aerobarques" powered by gigantic Mana burning crystals, or supported by huge gasbags of some alchemical air that makes people's voices sound funny and squeaky when inhaled ...)

A specific magic supplement. What kind of magic would you like? Subtle versus vulgar magic? Scrabbling about in the dirt drawing runes, or high fantasy wand waving and calling down rocks from the sky to smite your enemies? Grotesque demon summoning, or genteel alchemy to suffuse incense, soaps and perfumes with spells of charm and seduction to sell to the local politicians and lonely young men out on the town?

How about a fantasy setting based on Joanne Harris' Chocolat? Or Patrick Susskind's Perfume? Or The Astonishing X Men?

Or even a certain scarred boy wizard?

Your imaginations need the bare bones Wayfarer setting, just for this.
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Postby Malakor » Thu May 26, 2011 8:21 pm

I look forward to seeing what Wayfarer brings.

However, I want to know what the Logo will look like (I can't help it, I'm a graphic designer :lol: )
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Re: Wayfarer

Postby PhilHibbs » Thu May 26, 2011 8:39 pm

alex_greene wrote:What kind of magic would you like? Subtle versus vulgar magic? Scrabbling about in the dirt drawing runes, or high fantasy wand waving and calling down rocks from the sky to smite your enemies? Grotesque demon summoning, or genteel alchemy to suffuse incense, soaps and perfumes with spells of charm and seduction to sell to the local politicians and lonely young men out on the town?
All of the above. This is a bit like "what kind of laws of physics do you want, sticks and stones bashed together, or jet propulsion?" I like our laws of physics that allow both, and I don't see why magic should be different. Ancient magic practised by primitive cultures should appear quite different to that practised in the capital city of the greatest empires. RuneQuest handles this with the different magic systems, which have their origin in the "overlapping worlds" cosmology of Glorantha, but there's no reason why you can't explain it as points on a development continuum.
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Postby Stainless » Thu May 26, 2011 9:08 pm

I'm sure it's been said that MRQII Vikings was a great book and that the system lends itself to a historical setting very well. When I think of running a Napoleonic setting, I think of BRP as the natural system for it, and I suspect Wayfarer, with its particular style, would be an even better fit. If you look at the "BRP Renaissance" happening at the moment, there's a reasonable number of historical supplements coming out (e.g., Rome) although Chaosium's poll on what they should publish next didn't feature historical very highly.

So a distinctive market for Wayfarer I can see is as a system for historical roleplaying. The system basics are already there. Thus a supplement could be; some setting-specific stats for equipment; some derivative rules for things like sailing, cavalry, artillery, etc. some historical background, some adventure seeds.

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Postby HalfOrc HalfBiscuit » Fri May 27, 2011 8:36 am

butscharoni wrote:And I really can't share the opinion of some folks that Glorantha hold sit back in some way. As someone who does not play Glorantha and knows only small bits about the setting, I never had the feeling when reading the rulebook that it was overly tied to that setting or specially written for it.
The rules in the core rulebook are pretty much universally usable in most fantasy settings and the parts that might not fit one specifically can just be cut out for that campaign.

The one thing were Runequest falls flat is in explaining this toolkit approach to GMs and give them examples of how to use it. So I am all for a book on setting design, world building and game mastering Runequest. And I think I am not alone with this wish. I am not sure, such a book would be the greatest bestseller, but it surely would "complete" the system and make it a great toolbox for times to come.
I do think Glorantha was a bit of a stumbling block myself, in that many gamers undoubtedly equate RuneQuest and Glorantha without investigating further. I think switching to the Wayfarer name will help get rid of that baggage. Unfortunately it also risks dumping some of those who are exclusively Glorantha gamers - and also it starts from scratch in the name recognition/reputation stakes.

I agree on the need for more world-building help for the rules. Again I think the problem was not helped by the fact that the biggest collection of cults published for the standard MRQII rules was the Cults of Glorantha book. For Wayfarer I would very much like to see a book of cults (divine/sorcerous and spirit) based on real world pantheons and traditions. I think that would be easier for GMs to relate to and import into their own worlds.
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Postby Vile » Fri May 27, 2011 8:52 am

Deities and Demigods for Wayfarers!
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Postby Grimolde » Fri May 27, 2011 9:06 am

I think it would be a good idea to offer support in making Wayfarer a less gritty combat system. Make it an option. This may be as simple as dropping hit locations. I'm not sure.
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Postby PhilHibbs » Fri May 27, 2011 9:21 am

Grimolde wrote:I think it would be a good idea to offer support in making Wayfarer a less gritty combat system. Make it an option. This may be as simple as dropping hit locations. I'm not sure.
Heresy! That's like saying, "Picasso paintings would be better if he got perspective right"! Hit locations and severed limbs have always been a core feature of RuneQuest, the danger has always been part of the attraction, the thrill. It wouldn't be RuneQuest without... hm, I suppose if isn't RuneQuest any more, is it? :lol: Anyway, they aren't going to change the core mechanics. And the "general hit points" rule is already there for NPCs, no reason why you can't use it for everyone. You'd have to do some thinking about how certain spells work e.g. Frostbite.
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Postby Grimolde » Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 am

PhilHibbs wrote:
Grimolde wrote:I think it would be a good idea to offer support in making Wayfarer a less gritty combat system. Make it an option. This may be as simple as dropping hit locations. I'm not sure.
Heresy! That's like saying, "Picasso paintings would be better if he got perspective right"! Hit locations and severed limbs have always been a core feature of RuneQuest, the danger has always been part of the attraction, the thrill. It wouldn't be RuneQuest without... hm, I suppose if isn't RuneQuest any more, is it? :lol: Anyway, they aren't going to change the core mechanics. And the "general hit points" rule is already there for NPCs, no reason why you can't use it for everyone. You'd have to do some thinking about how certain spells work e.g. Frostbite.
Very true
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Postby Vile » Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 am

Grimolde wrote:IThis may be as simple as dropping hit locations. I'm not sure.
That would be BRP, then. :wink:
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Postby Da Boss » Fri May 27, 2011 10:14 am

At present it seems to be a simple re-print with (perhaps) errata and Runequest Specific stuff taken out - although apparently the magic stays the same.......... No corrections and clarifications (which would have helped new players sadly) - which could have been taken off the forum and copy pasted...........

There is no indicaition from any posts I have seen that there will be a Wayfarer "setting" in any way. From the tone of the posts, I think MGP are looking to just put it out there as a rules set and hope for sales enough to continue it and other related lines - if it doesn't I would think its likely for understandable economic resons it will be dropped.

As it stands - it may be easier to add any RQII Inovations to BRP than try and make RQII / Wayfarer generic.
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Postby Deleriad » Fri May 27, 2011 11:17 am

I must admit that I don't see where the idea that RQII is not 'generic' comes from. The only Glorantha specific rules material in the book is the runes. Frankly I expect Mongoose to simply remove that chapter.

The examples are from a Gloranthan campaign but could be very simply edited to include a cult called Granth the Storm Dragon or some such.

The four magic systems are rooted in folklore, myth and generic fantasy and have no Gloranthan material.

The only thing left really is to decide whether to stick with current level of arms and armour technology (which basically covers about 500BC to about 1000AD) or to update to something more like European middle ages.

Personally I would like to see various explanations of rules and examples of how to apply them in a setting re-written to cover the 18 months of questions here but the best people to do that would be Loz and Pete and I don't see that happening. Although I think the rule set is rock solid, I think the explanation needs updating in several places. That can be done through copying and pasting. Or it can be done properly.

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