Epic dragon fight last night

[PhilHibbs]

Ok, here's the synopsis of the next episode.

They check the loot from the Orlanthi and find two bastard swords with spell blessings, one has between 1 and 10 castable points of Bladesharp, the other has between 11 and 20 points of Pierce. They are non-rechargeable, but there may be heroquests that can recharge them. Also a ring with a Magic Point reserve in it, and an aluminium wrist band with 1-10 points of Breathe Water. Various other non-magical loot worth around 1000sp, which is divided up among the other soldiers and sailors. Benito, Maurice and Strider (who was sick in bed, his player absent that session) claim sets of scale mail armour.

The ship limps to Zistorwal. Signals from the city inform them that there is a sea battle going on to the east, but the ship is in no fit state to go join, so it heads for the docks. It stops in between two stone jetties with crossbow emplacements at the end, and metal arms reach out of the water and lift the ship up to a pair of balconies above the jetties. Morticia casts her Mystic Vision and sees colourful sparks of magic flying around, some kind of communication spells. They are met by a Zistorite with a mechamagical eye who takes charge of the sealed chest containing the grimoire and leads the party into a small room with comfy benches and a pedestal with a white orb atop it. He instructs them to "place a hand on the orb and think lofty thoughts". One by one they do this, the last bein a little worried that it will all go horribly wrong and they are being atomised, but goes for it anyway. They appear in another, larger chamber with a large iron door bearing the Zistorwal city greeting engraved above it. They leave this chamber into an enormous room with many such doors around it, busy with other arrivals and beggars (I lifted this description out of the Clanking City book), one of whom they enlist as a guide, and then out of Arrival Chamber III and down the steps. Behind them they hear a crackle, and witness a coruscating purple expulsion of energy into the sky that spreads over the shield dome.

They make their way to the nearby White Hand inn and book rooms, then head south-east towards the industrial quarter where their contact from the Golden Liberation Socitety awaits them with the second half of their payment. When they arrive at Algorithm Alley, they find that Calculus Close is not where it should be, a new building has appeared in it's place, and the old metal street sign is lying on the floor, half chewed away by some kind of giant metal-eating rodent. Knocking on the door, it is answered by half a person mounted on a mechanical trolley who informs them that Calculus Close is 23% further up, and when they look a little blank, he indicates to them which way is "up", which is not entirely obvious from the formulae inscribed on the doors. The address they seek is "9x4/3pi^3 Calculus Close".

Calculus Close appears to have been transplanted wholesale, the existing building having been cut out from roof to pavement and the street somehow inserted neatly into the space. They find the door and are let in. They relax, chat, and the agent tells them that for their other reward, an excursion into the Hero World, they should report to the Black Iron Palace in the next few days.

They head off to a military armoury where they sell some of their magical loot, and arrange for the scale mail armour looted from the Orlanthi to be adjusted to fit, and Morticia commissions a cloak to be reinforced with copper wire mesh.

Then it's on in search of recreation, and they spend the evening drinking and gambling and whoring before staggering back to the White Hand.

[Chrönos]

Juan shoots it in the head, his Damage Boosted bow does 8 points plus his d4 bonus

We had a discussion about this at our last session. How can Enhance Damage work on a bow, if you're using it to launch missiles and are not using the bow to bludgeon people with? Nominally, you'd have to cast it on the arrow(s), possibly manipulating for targets to make enough to be useful in a fight.

[PhilHibbs]

How can Enhance Damage work on a bow, if you're using it to launch missiles and are not using the bow to bludgeon people with? Nominally, you'd have to cast it on the arrow(s), possibly manipulating for targets to make enough to be useful in a fight.

It's the bow that has a damage rating. I would have no problem with a ref who ruled it your way, though, but I'm allowing it this way.

[Loz]

A bow's ability to inflict damage is dependent as much on its draw, which stores energy, as it is on the arrow, which delivers the damage through both the energy imparted to it by the bow, and by the inherent nature of the arrowhead.

The Enhance Damage spell says this (my emphasis):

This spell can be cast upon anything capable of inflicting physical damage; weapons, traps, unarmed attacks or even other offensive spells.

So its quite appropriate to cast the spell on the bow although it could, equally be cast on the arrow. Its a more efficient use of the spell to cast it on the bow because, obviously, once you've loosed the arrow, its gone.

[soltakss]

There's a minimaxer in me that just won't go away ...

You can cast Enhance Damage on a bow to give it some oomph (better draw, more potential energy etc) and you can cast it on an arrow (sharper/more momentum) then why not do both?

Obviously you can't cast Enhance Damage on an arrow or bow twice, but why not on a bow and on an arrow?

Twice as nice.

[Dan True]

There's a minimaxer in me that just won't go away ...

You can cast Enhance Damage on a bow to give it some oomph (better draw, more potential energy etc) and you can cast it on an arrow (sharper/more momentum) then why not do both?

Obviously you can't cast Enhance Damage on an arrow or bow twice, but why not on a bow and on an arrow?

Twice as nice.

Well, the effect the magic has on the different weapons are obviously different... else there should be different spells for sharp vs. bludgeoning weapons for instance.

With this established, then it makes perfect sense that casting the spell on a bow takes the bows nature into account... so, it enhances the draw of the bow and the sharpness of the arrow - voila. So as long as an arrow is fired from an enhanced bow, then the arrow is also enhanced.

If you were to want two different spells to give some sort of edge, how would you handle it mechanically? Casting the spell on the bow already maximises damage - what effect should casting the spell on the arrow then have? Two maximised damage dice?

- Dan

[PhilHibbs]

You can cast Enhance Damage on a bow to give it some oomph (better draw, more potential energy etc) and you can cast it on an arrow (sharper/more momentum) then why not do both?

Because there would be no benefit. Damage Enhancement only increases the rolled damage to the maximum rollable.

[Vortigern]

Mmm.

But what about casting Damage Enhancement on the Bow, and then say Bladesharp on the arrows?

[Mugen]

Mmm.

But what about casting Damage Enhancement on the Bow, and then say Bladesharp on the arrows?

Speedart is a better choice

[PhilHibbs]

But what about casting Damage Enhancement on the Bow, and then say Bladesharp on the arrows?

There's no reason in the rules why that would not work, but again I'd accept a GM ruling that the two do interfere, and that the lower magnitude spell gets cancelled when the arrow is notched to the string. I did allow Boost Missile Range and Damage Enhancement to work alongside each other in the dragon fight, as one was on the bow and the other on the arrows.

I made a decision at the start that I would allow sorcery to be as powerful as it is meant to be in the MRQ2 rules. The only thing that I nerfed hard was Enhance (characteristic) which I halved the effect of, and I'm glad I did!

[Mixster]

Mmm.

But what about casting Damage Enhancement on the Bow, and then say Bladesharp on the arrows?

Speedart is a better choice

Multimissile is even better.
Damage enhancement on the bow from the friendly sorcerer, multi-missile 10 on all your arrows from the friendly Divine Magician with Amplify. Every attack does 80 damage to an unarmoured location.

I made a decision at the start that I would allow sorcery to be as powerful as it is meant to be in the MRQ2 rules. The only thing that I nerfed hard was Enhance (characteristic) which I halved the effect of, and I'm glad I did!

That does give you the problem of Common Magic Spell being better than sorcery spells sometimes then.

[PhilHibbs]

The only thing that I nerfed hard was Enhance (characteristic) which I halved the effect of, and I'm glad I did!

That does give you the problem of Common Magic Spell being better than sorcery spells sometimes then.

When? If a sorceror has a grinoire skill less than 10, then yes, 1 MP spent on a Cordination spell will be better than 1 MP spent on an Enhance (DEX). I would contend that such a sorceror with an average INT and POW less than 5 is in the wrong job.

[Mixster]

The only thing that I nerfed hard was Enhance (characteristic) which I halved the effect of, and I'm glad I did!

That does give you the problem of Common Magic Spell being better than sorcery spells sometimes then.

When? If a sorceror has a grinoire skill less than 10, then yes, 1 MP spent on a Cordination spell will be better than 1 MP spent on an Enhance (DEX). I would contend that such a sorceror with an average INT and POW less than 5 is in the wrong job.

I was more thinking of the Divine Magician using Amplify. And then using 1MP on Coordination. Then he would severely outdo the sorcerer. As it is now, the divine magician will be getting 2 points more. With your system he would be getting twice +2.

[PhilHibbs]

That does give you the problem of Common Magic Spell being better than sorcery spells sometimes then.

When? If a sorceror has a grinoire skill less than 10, then yes, 1 MP spent on a Cordination spell will be better than 1 MP spent on an Enhance (DEX). I would contend that such a sorceror with an average INT and POW less than 5 is in the wrong job.

I was more thinking of the Divine Magician using Amplify. And then using 1MP on Coordination. Then he would severely outdo the sorcerer. As it is now, the divine magician will be getting 2 points more. With your system he would be getting twice +2.

That isn't Common Magic then, if you're using Amplify. There's no reason why Divine Magic shouldn't sometimes be more powerful than Sorcery, since Sorcery is usually the one on top. Also, the divine caster can only do that once per day, whereas the sorceror can do it dozens of times.

[Dan True]

Also, the divine caster can only do that once per day, whereas the sorceror can do it dozens of times.

If he's Rune Lord / Rune Priests he can do it once every hour, granted that he makes his rolls.

The important thing however is that the sorcerer can cast it on the whole party, if he has sufficient manipulation points by spending +1 MP.
The divine caster, amplify or not, will have to buff each one individually.

- Dan

[Deleriad]

Also, the divine caster can only do that once per day, whereas the sorceror can do it dozens of times.

If he's Rune Lord / Rune Priests he can do it once every hour, granted that he makes his rolls.

The important thing however is that the sorcerer can cast it on the whole party, if he has sufficient manipulation points by spending +1 MP.
The divine caster, amplify or not, will have to buff each one individually.

- Dan

Amplify & Extension is rather nice... Every common magic spell you ever wanted boosted all the time. With a good old Pact of 81%+ then that's everything at Magnitude 10. That's comparable to a sorcerer with Grimoire at 81%+ Obviously for a party of 3 or more, the sorcerer gets cheaper for mass buffing but the priest does get an inherent 10 Magnitude to everything for free. Does require 2 dedicated POW but I'd pay that for a Disruption 10.

[PhilHibbs]

Amplify & Extension is rather nice...

Agreed. Maybe it's too nice.

[Dan True]

Amplify & Extension is rather nice...

Agreed. Maybe it's too nice.

I believe so. I've removed Extension from all cults in Eberron, and only two (magic-oriented) cults have Amplify. Extension, and especially extension +amplify should be the stuff of legends, i.e. in my world - dragons and fiends.

- Dan

[PhilHibbs]

Extension, and especially extension +amplify should be the stuff of legends, i.e. in my world - dragons and fiends.

I think it's a real shame that tricksters can't get Extension, cast with Laughter would be really funny. Go on. Laugh. Keep laughing, for ever. Yes, I will dedicate those two points of POW to make you laugh until the end of time. *Edit* Yes I would dedicate those two points of POW to make you laugh until the end of time, but alas, I cannot make you immortal as well.

[Simulacrum]

Excellent idea. If I put a trickster-type cult into AoT I shall make a point of having Extension available..."Someone kill that trickster before this guy dies laughing...."