Following on from the thread in 'What Should Mongoose Publish Next' I am going to add my two cents here, at least in regards rules.

For a start, I submit rules for a race.

I must point out I have only read the first book so far, and some people may not agree with the design I present below.

Let me know what you think. I tried to make a balanced playable race. My inclusion of d8s below is that I vaguely remember a mention of them linked to a Chaos/Chaotic Warren, and since the greek symbol for Chaos is an 8-sided star, I thought it would be cool to do. I figured their INT and POW would be above average as they live so long, thus buliding up their repetoire of knowledge, and some Tiste Andii seem to tend toward magic in the books. As for their phsical stats, I see, maybe have not read enough, no evidence they are particularly better than humans in the book (with the exception of speed in combat, which seems to be magically boosted in most respects).



Tiste Andii Draft 1:
============

The Tiste Andii are taller than humans are, though of similar proportions. Their skin is ebony-black, with slanted, epiphantic, almond-shaped eyes that change colour with their moods. Their hair is silver, white, black, or rarely red, and generally kept long. The Tiste Andii are extremely long-lived (one of their leaders is rumoured to be at least 300,000 years old), and aging is slow. Barring accidents or death through violence, they may live forever. Some Eleint Andii (Dragon mix-blood) keep a younger appearance normally between twenties and forties. The Tiste Andii are close kin to the Tiste Edur and Tiste Liosain, though they do not share genetic descent or respect.


Characteristics
===========
STR 4d6 (drop the lowest) (12)
CON 4d6 (drop the lowest) (12)
DEX 4d8 (drop the lowest) (12)
SIZ 3d6+6 (17)
INT 4d8 (drop the lowest) +2 (17)
POW 4d8 (drop the lowest) +2 (17)
CHA 4d6 (drop the lowest) (12)

Special Rules
==========
Movement: 5m
Traits: Life Sense, Night Sight

Erm, your averages are a bit off.

The average of 4d6 drop lowest is about 12.5. 4d8 drop lowest is around 15~16.

They are probably a lot better than humans if played alongside them. If not, they are probably fine, but would grant you a higher powered game.

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Meep Meep

I am not sure that the average Tiste Andii would have markadly different statistics to a human - except for Size - maybe go for 3D6+6.

As I read it most of an indivuduals power comes from the fact they don;t age in the same way as humans and hence can amass power and skills over a very long period.

IIRC Tiste Andii are children of Darkness rather than Chaos?

Soletaken probably should be a whole different stat base - a bit like D+D Half Dragons but with the ability to Veer into Draconic form (or other)?

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Darkness Rising
Dark R II
Dilgar War

@ Mixster

Probability noted, and post edited.

I agree they would be more powerful in some regards, living so long, and having time to build up an array of skills, but do we actually see that much of the day to day life of an 'avereage' Tiste Andii. I'd assume that not all of them are soldiers and mercenaries, and even then, I wouldn't be inclined to assume they all practice magic, unless the source material says so.

I'm trying to go for balance as a Player Character. I see nothing wrong with making more powerful ones as NPCs, be it as opponents, or whatever use they may provide to a game.


@ Da Boss

Your comment on size has been noted and included.

That's what I reckon to, its more down to skills and time then their stats, and magic too. I know they are Children of Darkness, but I remember some other vagure reference somewhere about a connection between them and Chaos. I could be totally wrong on the other hand.

I agree with Soletaken, but would they make a suitable player character race with such abilities?

This thread also raises some interesting points:

http://forum.malazanempire.com/index.php?showtopic=14081

The get reading!

Broadly OK, I've no idea what the stats mean someone else will need to check through that, but the background seems to be a basic introduction. The Tiste are 'Invader Races'. They are 'children' of the Elder Warrens (Light, Shadow and Darkness). I'd just copy the stat block for Tiste Andii and make them the same as Tiste Edur and Tiste Liosan and replace the traits ae appropriate.

The Eleint (dragons) and Soletaken (minor shapeshifting) are complecated.

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Andy W
Collector of dead wargames

I'd agree with this. Although certainly longer lived, the Tiste generally didn't seem that much more capable than the surrounding humans. Take the battle on the shore in the final book as an example.

There are certainly exceptions - such as Anomander Rake - who, for want of a better word, 'adventured' in their younger days and actively interacted/interfered with the human-dominated world around them.

jm2c

Midnight Tides has lots of background information on the Tiste Edur - including population size on that continent - 1/4 million in various tribes

The "common folk" of all three races don't appear really superior to humans in physical or mental attributes but with the removal of the degredation of ageing can increase their knowledge and skills over a very long lifetime.

_________________
Darkness Rising
Dark R II
Dilgar War

@ Da Boss

True, regarding their ageing, but I think building a more advanced adevnturer would cover that well.

@ Everyone

So, does this seem like an ok stat line for a Tiste Andii so?

And also, regarding the other Tiste, if the stats are the same for them too, what traits would they have instead?

Tiste Races of the Malazan Book of the Fallen


Tiste Andii
========

The Tiste Andii are taller than humans are, though of similar proportions. Their skin is ebony-black, with slanted, epiphantic, almond-shaped eyes that change colour with their moods. Their hair is silver, white, black, or rarely red, and generally kept long. The Tiste Andii are extremely long-lived (one of their leaders is rumoured to be at least 300,000 years old), and aging is slow. Barring accidents or death through violence, they may live forever. Some Eleint Andii (Dragon mix-blood) keep a younger appearance normally between twenties and forties. The Tiste Andii are close kin to the Tiste Edur and Tiste Liosain, though they do not share genetic descent or respect.

Tiste Edur
=======

The Tiste Edur are taller than humans, though of similar proportions. Their skin is a dull grey colour of a hue not found in humans, with slanted, epiphantic, almond-shaped eyes. Hair ranges from dark red to dark brown, and greys with age. The Tiste Edur are close kin to the Tiste Liosain and Tiste Andii, though they do not share genetic descent. The Tiste Edur are looked down upon by the Tiste Liosan, and with hatred by the Tiste Andii on Lether. The Edur are extremely long-lived, but unlike the Andii and Liosan are not immortal. Female Edur mature more quickly than males.

Tiste Liosan
=========

The Tiste Liosan are not one of the four founding races. They only have contact with the Malazan world due to a breach of the barriers surrounding their Warren of Kurald Thryllan possibly through the human use of Telas, the Path of Fire and the Imass use of the Tellann, the Warren of Fire.

The Tiste Liosan are taller than humans, though of similar proportions. Their features are similar to Tiste Edur's, apart from their white, almost luminous skin and silver, slanted, epiphantic, almond-shaped eyes. Their hair is silver or gold and generally kept long. The Tiste Liosan are close kin to the Tiste edur and Tiste Andii, though they do not share genetic descent. Internal anatomy differs from the human norm; specifically, the heart known to be buried deeper in the torso.


Characteristics (All)
==============
STR 3d6
CON 3d6
DEX 3d6+2
SIZ 2d6+6
INT 2d8+6
POW 3d6+2
CHA 3d6

Special Rules
==========

Movement: 5m (All)

Traits:

 Life Sense (All)
 Night Sight (Tiste Andii)
 Dark Sight (Tiste Edur)
 Earth Sense (Tiste Liosan)

MRQ 1st Edition Characters: Roll an extra dice to those listed for characteristics, dropping the lowest.

For you avaerage Tiste, I would go, as they are pretty human stats wise.

Characteristics (All)
==============
STR 3d6
CON 3d6
DEX 3d6
SIZ 3d6+6
INT 2d6+6
POW 2d6+6
CHA 3d6

but then maybe go like Dragonnewts and have "age" catergories

so

Mature, Eldar, Ancient with increasing stats, skill pool and additonal past experiences rolls? Drop the species maximums as well

Add 300,000 years of improvements rolls should get a pretty experienced character?

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Darkness Rising
Dark R II
Dilgar War

With regard age, I agree, but as a player character race, having one who has lived for thousands of years or who is ancient, or solektaken, or who is an uber mage would be very, very un balanced, as I present these stats as balanced PC races.

You couldn't have a character like Rake in a party, let alone a chracter who is even a tenth as powerful, even if you take away his sword and his shapeshifting ability. On the other hand, you could, if the rest of the party were high level characters too.

My take on it would be that Tiste who are that old and wise, and powerful, are too precious to just wander around the world and expose themselves to unnecessary dangers, nor would they give trivial or unimportant quests any notice, they would have underlings capable of fulfilling such things.

I'm happy enough with the stats I have done so far. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with them. In my opinion, a Tiste should have a higher INT and POW than a human, as they are a long lived race.

If your interested in a Mature, Eldar or Ancient Tiste, why not write the rules rather than suggest things? I would be interested to see what you come up with.

Not sure if the last line with the menion of 300,000 years is a joke or sarcasm.

Edit:

I have modified the above entry to take into account some suggested changes, and added a modification for MRQ 1st edition.

Question:

What other races, aside from Eleint, could be added?

I'm not sure Eleint could ever really be used as a PC race, more as antagonists - a bit too powerful and alien

For other races, how about (otoh):
- Barghast (/moranth)
- Trell
- Thel Akai / Toblakai / half

and then a whole set of backgrounds to distinguish the huge range of different human-types.

With regard age, I agree, but as a player character race, having one who has lived for thousands of years or who is ancient, or solektaken, or who is an uber mage would be very, very un balanced, as I present these stats as balanced PC races.

yes true - but then thats a descison to make - is the idea to present the basic characters or the people in the novels as these vary massively in power?

You couldn't have a character like Rake in a party, let alone a chracter who is even a tenth as powerful, even if you take away his sword and his shapeshifting ability. On the other hand, you could, if the rest of the party were high level characters too.

Well to be fair - the older editions of Stormbringer gave us PCs who were not far off in power and I had no problem running games?

My take on it would be that Tiste who are that old and wise, and powerful, are too precious to just wander around the world and expose themselves to unnecessary dangers, nor would they give trivial or unimportant quests any notice, they would have underlings capable of fulfilling such things.

I'm happy enough with the stats I have done so far. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with them. In my opinion, a Tiste should have a higher INT and POW than a human, as they are a long lived race.

surely only if they are in fact older? Use what you feel is right - I'm only making suggestions

If your interested in a Mature, Eldar or Ancient Tiste, why not write the rules rather than suggest things? I would be interested to see what you come up with.

Mature characters wouldprobably start at Hero level - giving an additonal 400 skill points, and 1D8+4 Charaterstic points plus 12 Hero points and 3 Heroic Abilities
Roll 3 more times on the background event table than normal to represent the increasingly complex life he or she leads

Eldar - hmm lets suggest

Free Skill Points: 1000, 2D8+4 char points, 18 Hero Points, 6 Heroic Abilities
Roll 5 more times on the Backgorund events table than normal

Not sure if the last line with the menion of 300,000 years is a joke or sarcasm.

Just a bit of fun

Edit:

I have modified the above entry to take into account some suggested changes, and added a modification for MRQ 1st edition.

Question:

What other races, aside from Eleint, could be added?

I agree there are lots of subraces of humans - aagin this could eb modelled like previous editions of Stormbirnger with regional stat bonuses Mazlan Heavies could get +6 Strength and Con?

Eleint and other shapechangers could be modelled as Heroic abiltiies?

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Darkness Rising
Dark R II
Dilgar War

Aye, though 'Eleint' is not the same as Soletaken, which is what I was getting at in my other post I wouldn't think you could play an Eleint (see final book), but a Soletaken (as a Heroic ability) - sure.

Yeah Eleint are a bit different and I know what you mean about the last book

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Darkness Rising
Dark R II
Dilgar War