Movement Issues

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Grimolde
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Movement Issues

Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:47 am

Last night we did a mock combat on a battle grid, 4 combatants. When it came to movement it was a nightmare.

It was all to do with sprint movement, and CAs, and how often you could move.

For example, he spends 1 CA and sprints, and the following questions arose:

If he can sprint Move 8 x5 per Combat Round, how far could he sprint on 1 CA?

If he 'sprints' can he then act later in the same Comat Round?
Dan True
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Postby Dan True » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:08 am

You can move up to your movement per round - if that is move 2 metres per CA or move them all on the same, it doesn't matter.

If he chooses to sprint, he then can do nothing else that turn (if in a precarious situation, you may want to move the character a bit each SR, so he doesn't end up near the nasty big guy prematurely).

So:
Grimolde wrote:
If he can sprint Move 8 x5 per Combat Round, how far could he sprint on 1 CA?
Sprint takes up all your CAs on that combar round, so it is not possible to sprint on only 1 CA.
Grimolde wrote:
If he 'sprints' can he then act later in the same Comat Round?
No.

Remember that even though your character does some stuff on different CA's, in real-time they would be happening at almost the same time. So, character A draws a sword, moves 5 metres and jumps over a bench. On the next turn he charges an enemy B - A is actually drawing the sword while he's running, and in one fluid movement he jumps the fallen bench and slashes at B.

Also remember that the movement system is a bit more abstract than you are used to from perhaps D&D or other systems. This is because you cannot reflect the flexibility of a real-world combat (circling combatants, dodging and small retreats) in such simple terms as D&D uses. There are many situations where you will have to remember that the miniatures on the battle map, does not reflect exact positions when fighting.
An example is when engagement reach comes into play, with nearby people who are not engaged. If character B tries to open the distance to use his spear correctly, what is the precise effect of movement on the battle grid? If A counters (opposed evade check), doesn't this mean that he also needs to be moved a bit on the grid.

The result is, you have a very expressive and detailed system, which for many reenactors feel right, and which expressed the inhering chaos and flexibility in a fight (two combatans simply do not stand in each of their own 1-metre squares, hacking at each other - they are constantly moving, even if only slightly for some combat styles). But it also means that you have to use your imagination and common sense a bit more.

Sorry for the long reply, I realise it gave a bit more than you asked for - but hopefully it helped.

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

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Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:34 am

Dan True wrote:Sorry for the long reply, I realise it gave a bit more than you asked for - but hopefully it helped.

- Dan
It does, thank you
Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:39 am

Though technically, a character with say, 6 CAs, can move faster than someone sprinting?
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Postby Dan True » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:11 am

Grimolde wrote:Though technically, a character with say, 6 CAs, can move faster than someone sprinting?
No, because the character can only move his movement each round, unless sprinting. So say a character with 6 CA, has 8 Movement. He can do either of these:

CA 1: Move 8 metres
CA 2-6: Do something else

or:

CA 1: Move 1 metre
CA 2: Do a little dance
CA 3: Move 5 metre
CA 4: Make a little love
CA 5: Move 2 Metre
CA 6: Get down tonight

As long as he doesn't move more than 8 metres per combat round, he can spread the 8 metres out over as many CAs as he like.

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:53 am

Thanks all :)
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Postby gran_orco » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:04 am

(Apparently this is Mongoose Pete's explanation on how movement is supposed to work)

The original intent was that you can walk about freely, up to your total of 8m in a round, in combination with whatever else you are doing. Normal walking doesn't interfere with spellcasting, attacking etc.

The Move action was there for situations when a character was out of reach of his next (melee) target, or when they want to start running about at higher speeds than just walking.

Should a move CA be used or not? Well, its up to you to decide, you're the GM. Does it fit your sense of verisimilitude?

• You can not move more than 8m total in a round, but you can spread this over as many Actions as you want.
• The Move Action is for when you only want to move with an Action.
• Some Actions, such as casting, limit the amount a character can move to 4m with that action.
The character can still move 8m in a round, just not combined with the casting action.
• Combining a move with another action is for the purpose of reaching the point where the action takes place (an attack, grabbing a torch from a wall sconce, etc.). So you may Move then Act, but not the other way around. You cannot attack then move 8m as one action.
• Sprinting
A sprint takes a full round, therefore a sprint must be begun in Phase 1 of the round with the first Action available to the sprinter. The sprinter may still use other CA's to defend himself throughout the round.
Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:24 am

gran_orco wrote:• Sprinting
A sprint takes a full round, therefore a sprint must be begun in Phase 1 of the round with the first Action available to the sprinter. The sprinter may still use other CA's to defend himself throughout the round.[/i]
So how far can you move when charging, and does the charge and resulting attack take 1 CA? This caused a few frowns last night as well.
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Postby Dan True » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:39 am

gran_orco wrote:(Apparently this is Mongoose Pete's explanation on how movement is supposed to work)

The original intent was that you can walk about freely, up to your total of 8m in a round, in combination with whatever else you are doing. Normal walking doesn't interfere with spellcasting, attacking etc.

The Move action was there for situations when a character was out of reach of his next (melee) target, or when they want to start running about at higher speeds than just walking.

Should a move CA be used or not? Well, its up to you to decide, you're the GM. Does it fit your sense of verisimilitude?

• You can not move more than 8m total in a round, but you can spread this over as many Actions as you want.
• The Move Action is for when you only want to move with an Action.
• Some Actions, such as casting, limit the amount a character can move to 4m with that action.
The character can still move 8m in a round, just not combined with the casting action.
• Combining a move with another action is for the purpose of reaching the point where the action takes place (an attack, grabbing a torch from a wall sconce, etc.). So you may Move then Act, but not the other way around. You cannot attack then move 8m as one action.
• Sprinting
A sprint takes a full round, therefore a sprint must be begun in Phase 1 of the round with the first Action available to the sprinter. The sprinter may still use other CA's to defend himself throughout the round.
Woaw, I didn't realise that move was not costing a CA if it was combined with another action.
Grimolde wrote:
gran_orco wrote:• Sprinting
A sprint takes a full round, therefore a sprint must be begun in Phase 1 of the round with the first Action available to the sprinter. The sprinter may still use other CA's to defend himself throughout the round.[/i]
So how far can you move when charging, and does the charge and resulting attack take 1 CA? This caused a few frowns last night as well.
You can charge your movement - what you have already moved in the round. So if the first think you do is charge, you can charge 8 m.
And yes, the move and the attack uses the same CA. But remember that charging can also be dangerous, as he gets an attack on you also. So, you have the choice of:

- Use a charge action. This represents a headlong charge into the enemy.
- Use a move action and an attack action (according to the description above, this only takes 1 CA as well according to Pete). This represents a more cautious approach where the enemy cannot strike you, but you do not gain a charge bonus.

- Dan
Check out my RuneQuest 6 blog!. It now has an adventure idea generator :)

Author of the Eberron for Legend/MRQ2 conversion:
http://runequill.com/files/Eberron_Legend.pdf
Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:03 pm

gran_orco wrote:• Combining a move with another action is for the purpose of reaching the point where the action takes place (an attack, grabbing a torch from a wall sconce, etc.). So you may Move then Act, but not the other way around. You cannot attack then move 8m as one action
I can see my players whining about 'why can't I grab the money pouch and then run!?'
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:06 pm

I think this is my last question on move/charging/attacking

If human (Move 8 ), with 3 CAs, can you, for example:

1 CA: Move or Charge 2m then attack?
2 CA: Move or Charge another 2m then attack?
3 CA: Move or Charge another 4m then attack?
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:40 pm

Anyone care to comment on the above?
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Postby ThatGuy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:24 pm

I think that is up to what makes sense to you in your game. I would think a charge would take at least 4m personally, but that's me.

I'm probably not the best authority on this though. I have essentially houseruled movement in my games, and I'm still working out the bugs.
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...
Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:40 pm

ThatGuy wrote:I think that is up to what makes sense to you in your game. I would think a charge would take at least 4m personally, but that's me.

I'm probably not the best authority on this though. I have essentially houseruled movement in my games, and I'm still working out the bugs.
Good point on the 4m though
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Postby duncan_disorderly » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:52 am

Grimolde wrote: Good point on the 4m though
It would still allow
CA1 - Move 2M and attack
CA2 - Move 2M and attack
CA3 - Charge 4m and attack

Which sounds reasonable to me (assuming there is no other reason why he shouldn't move after attacking, of course...)
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Postby Grimolde » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:04 am

I'm wondering why a character can move and act (grab torch), but isn't allowed to act (grab torch) and then move. Why is this?
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Postby Grimolde » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:36 am

The two move rates are walk and sprint, I can't find rules for running.

Unless I've overlooked them, I was considering a house rules where a character can run double his move rate (so 16 metres for humans), and still get a CA albeit at a -40 penalty.

What you think?
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Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:16 am

Grimolde wrote:I'm wondering why a character can move and act (grab torch), but isn't allowed to act (grab torch) and then move. Why is this?
I think it's to prevent people from hitting and then moving out of range before the opponent can retaliate. If you're doing something within someone's melee range, you have to give them a chance to whack you.
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Postby Grimolde » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:32 am

PhilHibbs wrote:
Grimolde wrote:I'm wondering why a character can move and act (grab torch), but isn't allowed to act (grab torch) and then move. Why is this?
I think it's to prevent people from hitting and then moving out of range before the opponent can retaliate. If you're doing something within someone's melee range, you have to give them a chance to whack you.
Pretty much what I was thinking, though I'll probably house rule that you can. Perhaps suffer an attack out of sequence, even if the opponent has no CAs left.
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Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:14 am

Grimolde wrote:Pretty much what I was thinking, though I'll probably house rule that you can. Perhaps suffer an attack out of sequence, even if the opponent has no CAs left.
I'd rather just disallow post-action-movement than give away free CAs to anyone who is lucky enough to be within range of a post-action-mover. If you want to do something then move, sorry you have wait till your next CA to do the "move" bit.

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