Sorcery, Manipulation and Magic Points

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Grimolde
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Sorcery, Manipulation and Magic Points

Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:01 pm

Sorcery

Between manipulation and magic Points I'm getting myself really confused here.

Is it a case of, you can spend magic points to enhance a spell equal to 10% of your manipulation skill score? Thus if you have a manipulation skill of 63, you have 6 points of manipulation, which means you can spend up to 6 magic points?

Or does it mean you can spend 1 magic point to use your entire manipulation skill? So going by the above example, I'd spend 1 magic point to be able to use 6 manipulation points?

The text reads "It costs one Magic Point to augment the Duration of a sorcery spell, regardless of its final time span."

But then it reads (for combined spells) "Only one Magic Point need be spent per Manipulation effect, regardless of the number of spells involved."

Like I said, really confused :? Perhaps if someone would be so kind as to give an example of using sorcery to cast a manipulated spell and combined manipulated spells?
Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:20 pm

Here you go.

Grimoire skill of 73%, Manipulation of 53%.

Cast Enhance DEX with no manipulation. Costs 1 MP. Gives you +16 DEX.

Cast Enhance DEX with all manipulation into Duration. Cost 2 MPs, gives you +16 DEX, lasts for POWx7 minutes.

Cast Enhance DEX with 4 points into Duration, 1 point into Range and 1 point into Magnitude. Costs 4 MPs, last POWx5 minutes, Range POWx1m, Magnitude 2.

Combine Enhance DEX with Enhance INT and put all remaining Manipulation into Duration. Costs 3 Magic Points, lasts POWx6 minutes.

Hope that helps.
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Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:47 pm

Deleriad wrote:Here you go.

Grimoire skill of 73%, Manipulation of 53%.

Cast Enhance DEX with no manipulation. Costs 1 MP. Gives you +16 DEX.
Shouldn't that be +14 DEX if Enhance is 2 points per 10% of the Grimoire Skill, or are you rounding up?
Deleriad wrote:Cast Enhance DEX with all manipulation into Duration. Cost 2 MPs, gives you +16 DEX, lasts for POWx7 minutes.
Ok so that's 1 mp for casting the spell, and 1 mp for manipulating the duration? If you have 5 manipulation points from Manipulation 53%, haven't you spent too many in the above example? The POW x7 alone would cost 6. With the +1 mp for casting the spell, I make that a total of 7 manipulation points.
Deleriad wrote:Cast Enhance DEX with 4 points into Duration, 1 point into Range and 1 point into Magnitude. Costs 4 MPs, last POWx5 minutes, Range POWx1m, Magnitude 2.[/qoute]
Unless I'm missing something (very possible), you've spent 7 manipulation points. Again, I can only see 5 max.
Deleriad wrote:Combine Enhance DEX with Enhance INT and put all remaining Manipulation into Duration. Costs 3 Magic Points, lasts POWx6 minutes.
Casting Enhance Dex costs 1mp
Casting Enhance Int costs 1mp
Manipulating Duration costs 1mp
Total MPs = 3

Manipulation points to spend = 5
This gets you the POW x6

Am I right?

Thanks
Last edited by Grimolde on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:55 pm

Grimolde wrote:
Deleriad wrote:Here you go.

Grimoire skill of 73%, Manipulation of 53%.

Cast Enhance DEX with no manipulation. Costs 1 MP. Gives you +16 DEX.
Shouldn't that be +14 DEX if Enhance is 2 points per 10% of the Grimoire Skill, or are you rounding up?
Always round up in RQII. So skill of 73% gives you 8 "effect levels" as it were. Same with Manipulation. 53% lets you add 6 levels of Manipulation.

As a final example using same skills:
Enhance INT, DEX and POW Combined together. Other 4 levels of Manipulation in Duration. Costs *4* Magic Points. Combine is unique in that it costs +1 MP per spell combined, unlike the other manipulations.
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Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:07 pm

Sorry, I posted after you posted. Round up. Got it! :)
Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:12 pm

Also something I noticed, the Magic Point you spend to cast the spell does not count as a Manipulation level. The spell always has an effect proportional to the grimoire skill.

base parameters for a sorcery spell with 0 Manipulation are:
Magnitude 1, Duration POWx1 minutes, Range touch, Targets 1.

With 6 levels of Manipulation from 53% skill you could add up to +6 Duration for 1 Magic Point. That would make the final Duration POWx7 minutes.
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Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:19 pm

Deleriad wrote:Also something I noticed, the Magic Point you spend to cast the spell does not count as a Manipulation level. The spell always has an effect proportional to the grimoire skill.

base parameters for a sorcery spell with 0 Manipulation are:
Magnitude 1, Duration POWx1 minutes, Range touch, Targets 1.

With 6 levels of Manipulation from 53% skill you could add up to +6 Duration for 1 Magic Point. That would make the final Duration POWx7 minutes.
You are absolutely right

Thank you
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Postby Deleriad » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:33 pm

Grimolde wrote:Thank you
No probs. Makes a change from answering questions about spirit magic 8)
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Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:40 pm

Deleriad wrote:
Grimolde wrote:Thank you
No probs. Makes a change from answering questions about spirit magic 8)
Uh oh...that's up next.

It's my own fault. I analyze things way too much, and the little things trip me up. But hey, that's why we have the internet!

Ok, just to clarify one finel point. The 3 point magic cost in your combined spell example.
Deleriad wrote:Combine Enhance DEX with Enhance INT and put all remaining Manipulation into Duration. Costs 3 Magic Points, lasts POWx6 minutes.
It's 1 for casting the spell, and 1 each for each manipulation of the Duration? :D
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Postby Dan True » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:53 pm

Grimolde wrote:
Deleriad wrote:
Grimolde wrote:Thank you
No probs. Makes a change from answering questions about spirit magic 8)
Uh oh...that's up next.

It's my own fault. I analyze things way too much, and the little things trip me up. But hey, that's why we have the internet!

Ok, just to clarify one finel point. The 3 point magic cost in your combined spell example.
Deleriad wrote:Combine Enhance DEX with Enhance INT and put all remaining Manipulation into Duration. Costs 3 Magic Points, lasts POWx6 minutes.
It's 1 for casting the spell, and 1 each for each manipulation of the Duration? :D
No, 1 for the spell, 1 for combining with enhance(INT) and one for manipulating duration.
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Grimolde
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Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:16 pm

Grimolde wrote:
It's 1 for casting the spell, and 1 each for each manipulation of the Duration? :D
Dan True wrote: No, 1 for the spell, 1 for combining with enhance(INT) and one for manipulating duration.
Yup. I just realised my error.

Thanks
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Postby Grimolde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:33 pm

To summarise then

1 magic point to cast a spell

+1 magic point per manipulation (example: Duration and Range)

+1 magic point per combined spell (example: Enhance Int and Enhance Dex)

If you combine more than one spell, you pay 1 magic point for every combined spell - but 1 magic point pays the cost for a single manipulation across all combined spells.

Thus, if you had 3 spells combined, and wanted to manipulate Range and Duration, as far as manipulation is concerned, you’d pay just the two magic points, 1 Range, 1 Duration. All 3 spells however, would have their Range and Duration manipulated.


That look good?
Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:55 pm

Just to be clear.
Combine Enhance INT, DEX & CHA. Costs 3 MPs (1 to cast the spell plus one for each spell combined).

Add Duration +3 & Range +1 to the combined spell costs +2 MP.

Total cost is 5 MPs. The whole combined spell has +3 Duration & +1 Range.

Easy way to calculate the MP cost for a spell is:
1 MP for each spell in it plus 1 MP for each Manipulation used (except Combine).
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Postby Caustic Marinade » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm

While we're on the subject... does casting time work the same way as MP cost, or not?

If you cast a spell and the only manipulation is Duration +5, the MP would be 2. In this scenario, would the casting time be:

1 CA, for using one manipulation?

-or-

5 CA, for using 5 points of manipulation?

I think it is the latter, but I'm not sure.

Thanks.
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Postby cerebro » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:55 pm

OMG!. We read the rules wrong!. No one here wanted to play a sorcerer. Now I know why sorcerers are tough. Wao.
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Postby cerebro » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:03 pm

can you please add casting time to the examples?. Thanks!.

Lets say my spell is touch. Do I need to grapple the target first?. Or do I cast and touch as part of the spellcasting action?. Does it cost a extra CA? How does that work when it comes to initiative?. Thanks.
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Postby taxboy » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:26 pm

cerebro wrote:OMG!. We read the rules wrong!. No one here wanted to play a sorcerer. Now I know why sorcerers are tough. Wao.
I reckon so doing a manipulation in a different area( duration, range) costs the manipulation points of level of empowerment but only costs 1 magic point per type of manipulation.

So as casting duration is linked to magic point cost, not manipulations ??

We have a house rule that casting time was one third of magic points.
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Postby ThatGuy » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:59 pm

Don't know if this was pointed out before, but each additional spell added in a combination adds a -10% modifierpellets spell's success.
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...
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Postby Grimolde » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:30 am

Caustic Marinade wrote:While we're on the subject... does casting time work the same way as MP cost, or not?

If you cast a spell and the only manipulation is Duration +5, the MP would be 2. In this scenario, would the casting time be:

1 CA, for using one manipulation?

-or-

5 CA, for using 5 points of manipulation?

I think it is the latter, but I'm not sure.

Thanks.
page 129 All sorcery spells take as many Combat Actions to cast as the number of Manipulations used to cast them, with a minimum casting time of 1.
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Postby Caustic Marinade » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:55 am

Grimolde wrote: page 129 All sorcery spells take as many Combat Actions to cast as the number of Manipulations used to cast them, with a minimum casting time of 1.
I'm not sure if you were trying to help, but you didn't. I had no trouble finding that same sentence on my own before posting. However, I find it to be somewhat ambiguous.

Basically, I do not know what is meant by "number of Manipulations". Is extending Duration +3 and Range +2 five manipulations, because you used five "manipulation points"? Or is it just two manipulations because you only did two types of manipulation?

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