Land of Samurai and RQII
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- Stoat
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Land of Samurai and RQII
How compatible is RuneQuest Land of Samurai with RQII? Is the main difference in the changes to sorcery?
I'm going to run a feudal Japan campaign and am thinking of buying the old Land of Samurai book so I'd really appreciate some feedback.
I'm going to run a feudal Japan campaign and am thinking of buying the old Land of Samurai book so I'd really appreciate some feedback.
There are differences in character creation too, plus Divine Magic.
However the two are highly compatible and the conversion notes available from the Mongoose website will help fill in the blanks.
Note, though, that LotS isn't feudal Japan but the Heiyan era - some 600 years prior to the classic Sengoku period.
However the two are highly compatible and the conversion notes available from the Mongoose website will help fill in the blanks.
Note, though, that LotS isn't feudal Japan but the Heiyan era - some 600 years prior to the classic Sengoku period.
What am I supposed to say?
Where are the words to answer you,
When you talk that way?
Rush - Spindrift
Where are the words to answer you,
When you talk that way?
Rush - Spindrift
- Lord High Munchkin
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It's a reasonable, and flexible, depiction of the setting, but please remember that any time 'Land of the Samurai' mentions Buddhism... take it with a big pinch of salt.
It is actually quite bad on this topic — pretty much much along the lines of saying "Christianity must a Spirit cult as there is something in it called the 'Holy Ghost'".
Buddhism is (and always has been in all it's various forms throughout history), a mystical belief; anytime theism creeps in question it (as it's usually based on 19th century colonial sources which saw everything as either theistic or witchcraft — i.e. viewing beliefs through their own cultural lens).
If you want to in your game, the best thing to do is to take Loz's excellent Draconic Mysticism (stripping out references to Dance) and use that for Buddhism. It's a simple fix, but it's better than the theism.
It is actually quite bad on this topic — pretty much much along the lines of saying "Christianity must a Spirit cult as there is something in it called the 'Holy Ghost'".
Buddhism is (and always has been in all it's various forms throughout history), a mystical belief; anytime theism creeps in question it (as it's usually based on 19th century colonial sources which saw everything as either theistic or witchcraft — i.e. viewing beliefs through their own cultural lens).
If you want to in your game, the best thing to do is to take Loz's excellent Draconic Mysticism (stripping out references to Dance) and use that for Buddhism. It's a simple fix, but it's better than the theism.
The desire for a "definitive, ultimate answer" is, in fact, classified by modern psychiatric medicine as a mental illness.
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- Stoat
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- Lord High Munchkin
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You also need this:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB ... hp?t=43076
The hard work is in converting the theistic magic to mystical powers.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB ... hp?t=43076
The hard work is in converting the theistic magic to mystical powers.
The desire for a "definitive, ultimate answer" is, in fact, classified by modern psychiatric medicine as a mental illness.
There is also a very interesting rule about ki skills in the book, if we are talking about the RQ 3 book. If you are going to allow your players to attain ki skills, be careful to follow the rules about advancing them, and don't allow IRs for those (only the natural occuring crits in dangerous situations).
The idea is that someone really masters a skill (needs to have 100 to start), and can then do amazing feats. The thing can be seen in many eastern movies, very often featuring in martial arts, where someone splits rocks with his bare hand, runs up a vertical wall, or vanishes in plain sight. Using the skill did cost 1 personal MP every instance, which sets a clear limit.
Our barbarian fighter (styled after Conan, so no magic use) at least loved the concept - he said it made him feel still powerful in the later game, where spellcasters often dominate (even if he had but two such skills).
The idea is that someone really masters a skill (needs to have 100 to start), and can then do amazing feats. The thing can be seen in many eastern movies, very often featuring in martial arts, where someone splits rocks with his bare hand, runs up a vertical wall, or vanishes in plain sight. Using the skill did cost 1 personal MP every instance, which sets a clear limit.
Our barbarian fighter (styled after Conan, so no magic use) at least loved the concept - he said it made him feel still powerful in the later game, where spellcasters often dominate (even if he had but two such skills).
- Lord High Munchkin
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Where in the MRQII Core rule book do you find it? The closest thing that I can find is the cult writeup of Orlanth the Dragon but that doesn't quite seem to fit. I don't claim to be an expert on Buddhism but I did live in Japan for a few years and I don't remember hearing legends of monks calling lightening strikes. Of course, if you know of lightening wielding monks, I'd love to know.ThatGuy wrote:Glorantha: Second Age.
Core rule book
MRQ2
I don't have any of the Glorantha books. Do they have lots of cults and grimoires in them? I really like RQII but I find the cults and grimoires to be very time consuming to make.
The Glorantha: Second Age is a core rulebook, for Glorantha.cerebrolator wrote:Where in the MRQII Core rule book do you find it?ThatGuy wrote:Glorantha: Second Age.
Core rule book
MRQ2
I don't have any of the Glorantha books. Do they have lots of cults and grimoires in them? I really like RQII but I find the cults and grimoires to be very time consuming to make.
I wasn't talking about the MRQ2 Core rulebook. Sorry if that was confusing...
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...
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- Lord High Munchkin
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I'd be very surprised if you could find any tales of monks "calling" down lightning.... The question to ask is really why would they call it, for what use (and they certainly wouldn't call it from a god, a "mere" deva, Japanese: ten pl. tenbu — a mundane entity)?
Buddhist "magic" is really a by-product out-growth of spiritual development through mystical practice (that's why 'Draconic Illumination' and Dragon magic is a good fit to represent it). Other beliefs' practitioners can sometimes also achieve these, but lacking understanding, typically squander the amassed virtue in non-spiritual use of the powers.
As to other "magic", it would be seen by Buddhists as ultimately just parlour tricks and the work of spirits invisibly moving things about so that sorcerers hubristically think they are casting spells that seem to "do" things (but really it's the spirits amusing themselves by playing along).
Buddhist "magic" is really a by-product out-growth of spiritual development through mystical practice (that's why 'Draconic Illumination' and Dragon magic is a good fit to represent it). Other beliefs' practitioners can sometimes also achieve these, but lacking understanding, typically squander the amassed virtue in non-spiritual use of the powers.
As to other "magic", it would be seen by Buddhists as ultimately just parlour tricks and the work of spirits invisibly moving things about so that sorcerers hubristically think they are casting spells that seem to "do" things (but really it's the spirits amusing themselves by playing along).
The desire for a "definitive, ultimate answer" is, in fact, classified by modern psychiatric medicine as a mental illness.
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This is true for mainstream Buddhism but Esoteric Buddhism (e.g. Shingon) certainly makes use of magic.Lord High Munchkin wrote: Buddhist "magic" is really a by-product out-growth of spiritual development through mystical practice (that's why 'Draconic Illumination' and Dragon magic is a good fit to represent it). Other beliefs' practitioners can sometimes also achieve these, but lacking understanding, typically squander the amassed virtue in non-spiritual use of the powers.
As to other "magic", it would be seen by Buddhists as ultimately just parlour tricks and the work of spirits invisibly moving things about so that sorcerers hubristically think they are casting spells that seem to "do" things (but really it's the spirits amusing themselves by playing along).
「天朝大國」, 很有意思: http://celestialempire.blogspot.com/
- Lord High Munchkin
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No, "right-handed" tantrics (i.e. such as Shingon) although they make use of mudra and dharani, these are not "spells" in the Western understanding of the word.
The closest (and probably best) RuneQuest simulation would be as short-term enchantments to provide boosts and advantages to immediate actions (ideally "action" in the Buddhist sense of the word).
However they are not "spells", it's probably best to think of them as practical, physical techniques to augment spiritual practice. For example, one performs the ritual motions and makes a mudra to focus the mind to a particular view, which in turn might allow mahamudra (i.e. the spiritual powers). The mudra or dharani do not themselves make the effect.
In many ways it's a different understanding of reality from theistic magic. Inwards-outwards, as opposed to outwards-inwards.
The closest (and probably best) RuneQuest simulation would be as short-term enchantments to provide boosts and advantages to immediate actions (ideally "action" in the Buddhist sense of the word).
However they are not "spells", it's probably best to think of them as practical, physical techniques to augment spiritual practice. For example, one performs the ritual motions and makes a mudra to focus the mind to a particular view, which in turn might allow mahamudra (i.e. the spiritual powers). The mudra or dharani do not themselves make the effect.
In many ways it's a different understanding of reality from theistic magic. Inwards-outwards, as opposed to outwards-inwards.
The desire for a "definitive, ultimate answer" is, in fact, classified by modern psychiatric medicine as a mental illness.
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How would you handle Shintoism? MRQII is the only version of runequest that I own. Land of Samurai appears to make the kami into sorcerers so that a Shinto priest is not casting the spells himself but the kami is casting them for him. RQII handles spirit magic differently by granting abilities to the spirit mage based on what spirits he has access to. Which method do you think fits better?
A Shinto priest should have to ask the Kami to cause the magical effectscerebrolator wrote: Which method do you think fits better?
for him, he should normally not be able to influence the reality through
his own magical powers.
In a way, Shinto priests are basically shamans of a highly developed ani-
mistic religion, and as with all shamans their only real magical power is
their ability to contact the spirits and ask them for their help.
However, almost all Asian religions or philosophies are non-exclusive, so
a Shinto priest could well have learned a bit of any other magical or re-
ligious tradition, too. While the ability to cast true spells would contradict
his world view, some people can live well with such contradictions.
- Lord High Munchkin
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The common RPG trope that sorcerers and magic practitioners actually perform the magic themselves, and it is this individual intervention that causes the effect, is largely a Western concept (there are exceptions, but as we are talking about Japan...).
Another thing to remember is that, generally, the less focussed (as well as lower down in hierarchy) a "mage/practicioner" is in a particular tradition (be it Shinto, Buddhism, or Ainu kamui traditions), the more likely they are to practice a "mixed" form of activity.
Luckily that is largely modelled in MRQII anyway!
Lastly, there are very few things that make one definitively "non-Buddhist"... but belief in a personal "soul", or atman (to use the Sanskrit term) is one of them (there are more recent discourses and debated teachings on the subject, but they are much later than the periods we are talking about). Sadly this rejection of "soul" would make forming a Pact with a deva impossible for a dedicated Buddhist.
Another thing to remember is that, generally, the less focussed (as well as lower down in hierarchy) a "mage/practicioner" is in a particular tradition (be it Shinto, Buddhism, or Ainu kamui traditions), the more likely they are to practice a "mixed" form of activity.
Luckily that is largely modelled in MRQII anyway!
Lastly, there are very few things that make one definitively "non-Buddhist"... but belief in a personal "soul", or atman (to use the Sanskrit term) is one of them (there are more recent discourses and debated teachings on the subject, but they are much later than the periods we are talking about). Sadly this rejection of "soul" would make forming a Pact with a deva impossible for a dedicated Buddhist.
The desire for a "definitive, ultimate answer" is, in fact, classified by modern psychiatric medicine as a mental illness.
I am not certain, because I could imagine something that would come ve-Lord High Munchkin wrote: Sadly this rejection of "soul" would make forming a Pact with a deva impossible for a dedicated Buddhist.
ry close to a kind of pact with a Yidam / Ishta-Deva - provided one would
see the Yidam / Ishta-Deva as a real and independent entity.
I think this is not only a "western" concept, but also a very modern one.Lord High Munchkin wrote:The common RPG trope that sorcerers and magic practitioners actually perform the magic themselves, and it is this individual intervention that causes the effect, is largely a Western concept (there are exceptions, but as we are talking about Japan...).
Indeed, for example much of Renaissance magic was based on the ideaMugen wrote: I think this is not only a "western" concept, but also a very modern one.
to have to conjure angels or demons to do the actual magic, with the va-
rious creatures of the Christian mythology replacing the spirits that a tra-
ditional shaman would have contacted.
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