Taking your time

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Denalor
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Taking your time

Postby Denalor » Fri May 07, 2010 8:19 am

Taking you time as per page 31 of the core rule book gives a nice bonus to your skill roll.
I wonder whether that really is also applicable for casting magic.


Common Magic

Up to Mag 2 spells take 1 CA to cast, if you take 2CAs it would therefore be double time, thus granting +20% to the Common Magic skill.
I see common magic as drawing on your inner reserves sort of, so this could represent taking more time in focusing etc., so this should be possibly.
Mind, given lot of preparation time, this will directly result in possibly strongly buffed PCs… you might consider that as a GM when you put up the challenge.
The added bonus would only be modifying the success, it has no effect on the actual spell


Divine Magic

Divine spells take 1 CA, regardless of magnitude.
Taking your time would give you +20% on the Lore (xyz theology) skill, surely Pact won’t be affected. I suppose it would represent the pondering before actually calling to your god for actually casting the respective spell.
Again, the added bonus would only be modifying the success, it has no effect on the actual spell (because that is dependent on Pact)


Sorcery

Now here we’re having a situation, since increasing Sorcery (Grimoire) would have a direct effect on the power of the spell. Taking only double time would increase the effect by 2 points, so to speak. Manipluation would obviously not be affected, or would it ?
Just imagine a sorcerer has Sorcery 61% and Manipulation 53% casting Damage Resistance on himself, possibly adding 3 to Duration (i.e. 4xPOW minutes) and 3 to Magnitude (i.e. Mag 4), so 3MPs and thus 3 CAs. He could do that anytime and indeed take a lot of time. Normally, that would only result in Damage Resistance 6, but by taking something like a whole minute to cast (i.e. 5 times as long) would make this Damage Resistance 10


Spirit Magic

Not really an effect, commanding the spirits is a free action anyway, releasing them is not dependent on a roll.
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ThatGuy
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Re: Taking your time

Postby ThatGuy » Fri May 07, 2010 9:09 am

Denalor wrote:Taking you time as per page 31 of the core rule book gives a nice bonus to your skill roll.
I wonder whether that really is also applicable for casting magic.


Spirit Magic

Not really an effect, commanding the spirits is a free action anyway, releasing them is not dependent on a roll.
I think your question is valid and applies to Spirit magic as well. Taking time to engage in spirit walking, no biggie, the magician is taking time, chanting, getting in the mood, and ultimately, goes into trance easier. That makes sense. But what about spirit combat?

If a spirit has 2 CA and a PC has 4CA, and a higher SR, whats to keep them from taking time to attack with those last two CA and adding +20 to his chances and increasing his damage a step. Is this permissible? It's explainable...the spirit magician takes time to focus his inner energies before unleashing his spiritual blast with startling force... but isn't that the equivalent of casting fate 2, and applying it directly to a specific roll?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...
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Postby Mugen » Fri May 07, 2010 9:48 am

This reminds me of RQ3 Ceremony skill, which allowed you to take time to increase your chance to cast a spell.

Personnally, I would allow a character to take time to cast a spell.
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Postby Denalor » Tue May 25, 2010 6:31 am

Well, that issue obviously didn't interest many people, right :D .

Anyway, I'll go for an increased skill roll, but I will not adjust the effects from the increased Sorcery (Grimoire) skill.
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gran_orco
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Postby gran_orco » Tue May 25, 2010 8:08 am

I think it is not valid for magic, but I am not sure...
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Postby Deleriad » Tue May 25, 2010 8:30 am

I must admit that I don't think it should be valid for magic however I believe Loz has ruled that it is. Thing is, taking 10 times as long (i.e. 30 seconds rather than about 3 seconds to cast a spell) gives you effectively 6 extra "levels" of effect without a signifcant drawback.

Personally I've constantly found the haste modifiers to be more trouble than they're worth. For magic I'm going to be using the following.

"Slow cast" - spell's casting time is measured in minutes rather than Combat Actions: +20%

"Ritual" - spell's casting time is measured in hours rather than Combat Actions: +40%

"Extended Ritual" - spell's casting time is measured in days rather than Combat Actions: +60%

If a spell is already a ritual (eg. Enchantment Ritual) and measured in hours then casting it as an Extended Ritual adds +20% (not +60%).
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Re: Taking your time

Postby Mugen » Tue May 25, 2010 8:41 am

Denalor wrote:
Sorcery
(...)
Just imagine a sorcerer has Sorcery 61% and Manipulation 53% casting Damage Resistance on himself, possibly adding 3 to Duration (i.e. 4xPOW minutes) and 3 to Magnitude (i.e. Mag 4), so 3MPs and thus 3 CAs. He could do that anytime and indeed take a lot of time. Normally, that would only result in Damage Resistance 6, but by taking something like a whole minute to cast (i.e. 5 times as long) would make this Damage Resistance 10
I think you're wrong here : in my understanding, taking time increases your chance of success, but has no effect on your actual skill level, upon which your spell's effects are based.
So you will simply have 91% to cast Damage Resistance 7 (remember fractions are always rounded up).
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Lord High Munchkin
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Postby Lord High Munchkin » Tue May 25, 2010 8:51 am

As I see it, it's a situational bonus, not an increase in skill.

Chance of casting goes up, result doesn't.
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Postby Deleriad » Tue May 25, 2010 9:22 am

Lord High Munchkin wrote:As I see it, it's a situational bonus, not an increase in skill.

Chance of casting goes up, result doesn't.
Does that then mean that Combine doesn't lower the effect of the skill? what about other positive and negative modifiers?
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Postby Denalor » Tue May 25, 2010 9:34 am

Does that then mean that Combine doesn't lower the effect of the skill? what about other positive and negative modifiers?
:shock:

EXTREMELY good question !!!
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Postby duncan_disorderly » Tue May 25, 2010 9:57 am

Deleriad wrote:I must admit that I don't think it should be valid for magic however I believe Loz has ruled that it is.
Hmm, I think it should be, because it allows for lengthy rituals which are coming to a climax just as the characters arrive to try and save the day...
Thing is, taking 10 times as long (i.e. 30 seconds rather than about 3 seconds to cast a spell) gives you effectively 6 extra "levels" of effect without a signifcant drawback.
That depends on what else is happening. taking 10 times as long to cast a spell during "downtime" has no drawback. Taking 10 rounds to cast a spell rather than 1 in combat might mean the enemy hit you before you get your protection spell up, or are all dead before you get the chance to use your Bladesharp 10 on them...

That said, I like your suggestion that the times be extended
For magic I'm going to be using the following.

"Slow cast" - spell's casting time is measured in minutes rather than Combat Actions: +20%

"Ritual" - spell's casting time is measured in hours rather than Combat Actions: +40%

"Extended Ritual" - spell's casting time is measured in days rather than Combat Actions: +60%

If a spell is already a ritual (eg. Enchantment Ritual) and measured in hours then casting it as an Extended Ritual adds +20% (not +60%).
since this does make the extra time more of a factor.
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Lord High Munchkin
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Postby Lord High Munchkin » Tue May 25, 2010 10:02 am

Deleriad wrote:
Lord High Munchkin wrote:As I see it, it's a situational bonus, not an increase in skill.

Chance of casting goes up, result doesn't.
Does that then mean that Combine doesn't lower the effect of the skill? what about other positive and negative modifiers?
Well, if you are taking your time, you can afford to do it right.

Again, I'd say relevant situational modifiers apply.

The changes in time, as suggested, might also be a good idea—perhaps try them and see if they work for you.
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Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Tue May 25, 2010 10:58 am

There is a really simple question at the heart of this which it would be good to have clarified.

Is the level of effect of a sorcery spell based on the value before modifiers or after?

The implications are that if it is based on the value after that skill levels can go up quite dramatically. E.g. someone with INT 15, POW 15 can effectively master any new spell simply by taking 10 times as long as normal to cast it.

If it is based on the value before modifiers, then things like Combine or being fatigued which give negatives, do not reduce the level of effect.
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Postby Mongoose Pete » Tue May 25, 2010 1:18 pm

Deleriad wrote:There is a really simple question at the heart of this which it would be good to have clarified.
It is based on the value before modifiers. The casting chance can vary, but the effect of the spell doesn't.
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Postby Deleriad » Tue May 25, 2010 1:31 pm

Mongoose Pete wrote:
Deleriad wrote:There is a really simple question at the heart of this which it would be good to have clarified.
It is based on the value before modifiers. The casting chance can vary, but the effect of the spell doesn't.
Thanks for that clarification.
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Postby Denalor » Wed May 26, 2010 5:26 am

Thanks for the clarification.

So taking your time with casting spells will allow you to succeed in casting your spell at all.
AND... will also adjust your critical range and thus allow for those specials on a critical roll (spend 1 less MP for common magic, do not lose spell for divine magic, cost no MPs at all for Sorcery, and ??? for Spirit Magic)

Umm... what is the effect of a critical roll on the Spirit Binding when used to command a released spirit :? ?
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ThatGuy
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Postby ThatGuy » Wed May 26, 2010 6:13 am

We went with no mp cost in our game, Denalor. At least when checking to bind your own, previously bound spirit. If it is in Spirit Combat, maximum damage is incurred (pg.139 CORE).

Just seemed in keeping with the rules...

Any official ruling?
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...

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