Characteristic increase rolls

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Deleriad
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Characteristic increase rolls

Postby Deleriad » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:08 am

Does anyone find these way too expensive? The main things that my players are grumbling about is the cost to increase characterstics. E.g. to go from DEX 10 to 15 would cost 50 IRs. On one hand I can see the game balance explanation. Increasing DEX by 1 point would bump up every skill with DEX in the base score by 1 or 2% and possibly increase SR and possibly increase CAs.

On the other hand, heroic abilities. All of these have a prime characteristic of 15 or so. Therefore you pretty much have to know which heroic abilities you want before creating a character because if you have a characteristic of 12 then you can't really the afford IRs to get to 15.

I'm personally considering using either a fixed cost in IRs. After all, a weak troll requires more IRs to increase its STR than a strong human or maybe a mechanism based around skill tests (e.g. using Brawn to increase STR). What has everyone else been doing?
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Postby weasel_fierce » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:43 am

I'd say it depends on how often you play, and how often you give out improvement rolls.

As written, the game seems like it definately assumes a very long term campaign, so if that isn;t the case for you, you'll want to reduce it slightly.
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Antalon
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Postby Antalon » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:59 am

Or perhaps allow a heroquest or something to meet the pre-reqs for a specific heoric ability.

Or, make a more heroic campaign and allow better than avg stats from the start.
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Postby Crazy Jerome » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:08 pm

Antalon wrote:Or perhaps allow a heroquest or something to meet the pre-reqs for a specific heoric ability.

Or, make a more heroic campaign and allow better than avg stats from the start.
Or simply lower every heroic ability stat requirement by some amount that makes sense in your context--maybe -3 to -5 across the board. I found this approach worked well for feat prereqs in d20 games, for the simple reason that I was keeping the prereq, but not really changing anything else about the game, as above average stats would do.

It all depends on what you want to accomplish, though. Do you want a more heroic game across the board? Then starting with more experienced characters or better stats make sense. If you just want ot make the heroic abilities more readily available, then modify the thing you see as being in the way.
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Postby SSWarlock » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:44 pm

weasel_fierce wrote:<snip> As written, the game seems like it definately assumes a very long term campaign...<snip>
Heh. Oh, for the free time of my high school/early university days... :wink:
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Postby Cowboy » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:30 pm

Or let PCs buy up stats with Hero Points instead of Improvement Rolls.
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Postby sdavies2720 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:17 pm

weasel_fierce wrote:I'd say it depends on how often you play, and how often you give out improvement rolls.

As written, the game seems like it definately assumes a very long term campaign, so if that isn;t the case for you, you'll want to reduce it slightly.
(emphasis mine)
Instead of long campaigns, you can alternately make character improvement-role driven advancement secondary to the story. Characters can gain power in lots of different ways. And you can have great stories even if advancement is small (or even with no advancement).

But, I did have one player quit my game in frustration saying, "I've been playing this game for a year and my hit points have never gone up." * sigh * His ability to avoid damage had gone up mightily, and his armor was much better, so he could wade into combats that he'd have had to avoid a year earlier. But that wasn't what he wanted. He wanted hit points, which I didn't give him. I was not sorry to see him go, but I regretted not realizing earlier what he wanted so that I could have saved him some frustration.

Steve
Last edited by sdavies2720 on Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:46 pm

I will say that the idea of using Hero Points in part for the cost might be an idea. Obviously I could give out IRs quicker but that doesn't change the issue of it costing 1 IR to raise a skill and significantly more to raise a characteristic. Similarly they could be given out more slowly if I wanted to de-emphasise that element of the game.

Anyway, considering letting 1 Hero Point replace either 5 or 3 IRs though requiring a minimum of 1 IR regardless. Might also consider allowing teaching as per skills.
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Deleriad
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Postby Deleriad » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Having mulled some more, I think I'm going to allow training in characteristic increases using a similar system to skill training. What do people think of the following.

If you wish to train a characteristic during downtime then you must use a skill related to that characteristic and find a teacher who is at least 20% higher than you in that skill. The skills for each characteristic are:
STR - Brawn
CON - Resilience
INT - any advanced lore
DEX - Evade
POW - Persistence or Meditate
CHA - Influence.

To attempt a characteristic increase through training the Adventurer spends a week in full time study with his teacher or mentor. At the end of the week he makes a 1D100 roll and compares it to the teacher's current score in the skill being used. Only one characteristic at a time can be increased through training.

If the skill test is a failure, the adventurer has made no progress.

If the skill test is a success then the adventurer rolls the normal dice for the characteristic and adds the teacher's critical score with their Teaching to the dice roll. If this roll *exceeds* the adventurer's current characteristic value then the characteristic increases by 1. If the roll does not exceed it, then the skill increases by +1% instead.

Example, Cedric the unhealthy is CON 8 and Resilience 43%. He heads to a teacher who knows Resilience 80% and teaching 57%. After spending a week, Cedric's player rolls a skill test for the teacher and succeeds with a 73. As human's CON is rolled on 3D6, the player then rolls a 2, 1 and a 3: only 6. Normally this wouldn't be enough but the teacher has a critical score of 6% in Teaching so adds 6 to the dice roll for a total of 12. As this is more than Cedric's current sickly 8, Cedric gains +1 CON.

Adventurers can also attempt training montages on their own if they so wish with no teacher present. However they get -20% to the initial skill roll to see if they can roll for an increase and, of course, get no bonus to the characteristic increase roll. Kindly GMs may let such adventurers add enough Hero Points to make up the difference. E.g. Cedric is spending time hauling carriages around to try and increase his STR. He makes his Brawn roll by -20% easily and has a STR of 12. He only rolls 11 however. The GM lets him spend 2 Hero Points to make his roll 13. By the time the music finishes, Cedric is ready to go and kick sand in a bully's face.

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