Gloranthan Classics

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Ozric
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Gloranthan Classics

Postby Ozric » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:18 pm

Recently I got the Griffin Mountain reprint from Moon Designs, and I'm thinking about picking up their other Gloranthan Classics volumes. Griffin Mountain has stats for monsters and NPCs and stuff, and I'm wondering how compatible RQ2 stats are with MRQ.

I hear that MRQ characters typically start with skill percentages higher than their RQ2 counterparts. Is there a blanket bonus one can add to RQ2 skills to bring them in line with MRQ? Are the stat values the same? Hit point locations?

On a side note, I'm reading Griffin Mountain and was surprised to note that most of the human inhabitants of Balazar and like primitive hunter-gatherers that use flint weapons and stuff. Is this fun? When Griffin Mountain was recommended to me, I was rather hoping for some of that bronze-age, mythological fantasy that I've often heard Gloranta contained. I'm picturing flint-age, hunter-gather fantasy as being difficult to attract a group of players with.
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Re: Gloranthan Classics

Postby Adept » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:26 pm

Ozric wrote: On a side note, I'm reading Griffin Mountain and was surprised to note that most of the human inhabitants of Balazar and like primitive hunter-gatherers that use flint weapons and stuff. Is this fun? When Griffin Mountain was recommended to me, I was rather hoping for some of that bronze-age, mythological fantasy that I've often heard Gloranta contained. I'm picturing flint-age, hunter-gather fantasy as being difficult to attract a group of players with.
Balazar is primitive. For bronze age (barely) look to the citadels. The Balazarings that hunt around with dog and flint spear are deemed primitive by their neighbours too.

The Griffin Mountain setting is quite often the setting of the conflict between Sartarites and the Lunars, both of which are found in the region. If I would be running a game set in Balazar, I'd concider basing it around the rulers of the citadels. Look at "The Song of Ice and Fire" for inspiration :D
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Postby GbajiTheDeceiver » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:33 pm

Both stats and skills should be broadly compatible. I'd take the "starting character has 80%" thing with a very large grain of salt, because that's an extreme situation.

You'll have to refigure SIZ and INT as RQ2 used a 3d6 roll for them. You'll also have to recalculate Damage Bonus, Strike Rank, Hit Points and all the rest.
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Postby zanshin » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:06 am

You'll have to refigure SIZ and INT as RQ2 used a 3d6 roll for them. You'll also have to recalculate Damage Bonus, Strike Rank, Hit Points and all the rest.
well you have to redo SR as thats completely different, the rest you only have to change if it matters to you that the stats and the secondary stats dont tie up, but as enemies all the players will see is what they are on the receiving end of.

I have always run RQ2 - i make minimal changes (if at all) to the stats of any RQ3 monsters i use from premade stuff.
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Postby Ozric » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:47 am

I'm not particularly concerned if all the numbers match up between editions, just as long as things feel right in play. I was hoping I could make use of RQ2 stuff without having to do lots of conversion beforehand. It sounds like there are a couple of key things that should be done, like SR, and maybe SIZ and INT. But otherwise it sounds like I can get some use out of RQ2 stats, with some judgement calls on the fly if need be.

Griffin Mountain is cool, but I might pick up Pavis & Big Rubble and see if I'd rather try starting a campaign there. The primitive nature of Balazar seems like it might not be the most compelling place to use as people's first Gloranthan experience.

Thanks, everyone.
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Postby RMS » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:02 am

Ozric wrote:Griffin Mountain is cool, but I might pick up Pavis & Big Rubble and see if I'd rather try starting a campaign there. The primitive nature of Balazar seems like it might not be the most compelling place to use as people's first Gloranthan experience.
I can understand that it may not appeal to everyone. OTOH, it's actually an excellent place to start new people with Glorantha because they have a small worldview. It lets you introduce all the other parts of Glorantha to both the characters and the players bit by bit. It lets the players, in character, discover all of the more powerful cults and determine which one they want to try to get into, and makes that an adventure(s) of it's own. Pavis is also a great place to start, but has a considerably bigger learning curve for new players before they can actually play. There's mulitple cultures and a mutlitude of cults to think about during character creation, that isn't much of an issue for a Balazaring hunter.

Ironically, I'm getting to play in Balazar after running it multiple times over the years. I'm enjoying playing a native who has complete disdain for the "pig herders" and all the other soft folk that live in the citadels. He's also thrown all kinds of spokes into the poor (new) GMs plot hooks. He doesn't understand the value of money and won't work for something as useless as some coins ("you can't eat or wear them can you?"), though he recently discovered that you can melt clacks into decent spear tips! :)
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Re: Gloranthan Classics

Postby atgxtg » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:13 am

Ozric wrote:Recently I got the Griffin Mountain reprint from Moon Designs, and I'm thinking about picking up their other Gloranthan Classics volumes. Griffin Mountain has stats for monsters and NPCs and stuff, and I'm wondering how compatible RQ2 stats are with MRQ.

I hear that MRQ characters typically start with skill percentages higher than their RQ2 counterparts. Is there a blanket bonus one can add to RQ2 skills to bring them in line with MRQ? Are the stat values the same? Hit point locations?
Well Based upon the results of the Applelane Rainbow Mounds posts, I'd suggest:

* If a skill is listed as significant, raise it by 20%
* If a skill is at base percentage don't change it

That will probably give you about the same realtionship to an average starting PC with a 55-60% skill, as the same character would have had with a 35-40% skill in RQ2. Not perfect, but probably ballpark enough.

* Reduce the battle magic. Based ion what we've seen RQ2 character appear to know a lot more battlemagic that MRQ characters.

*Tweak the other stats to conform th MRQ values. You can do SIZ and INT conversion with the RQ2-RQ3 conversion notes. Re calucluate hit points and damage bonus (or just keep HP the same and reduce the db by one step- d4 to d2, d6 to d4 and you should be fairly close).
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Postby soltakss » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:01 am

Personally I wouldn't bother changing the SIZ/INT stats. OK, so they give slightly smaller NPCs than RQM, but it doesn't really matter.

Keep weapon damage the same as it's easier and there's not much difference, you might want to reconfigure damage bonuses, but I'd keep them the same for ease of use. If you want lots of work then redo HPs as RQ2 is based on CON with a SIZ bonus, HPs per Location is different too, but I've been using RQ2 HPs/Locations with RQ3 without changing them and it works OK. Similarly you could change APs for Armour, but I'd keep them the same.

You will have to redo SRs as that is completely different. Also, Weapon APs are different so they might need reconfiguring. Shields are about the same, though.

RQ2 has Battle Magic and Rune Magic, so you might have to change them or keep the RQ2 spells. If you want Runecasting then you'd need to give each NPC Runecasting skills and Runes. Variable Battle Magic is no more, so give characters with high-pointage spells high Runecasting skills.

As for Balazar being too primitive for starting characters, that isn't true, really. The Citadels have some technology, PCs can be outsiders from Dragon Pass or the Lunar Empire and can be as advanced as needed. Only Balazaring/Votanki Hunters are primitive and even they can get hold of some metal weapons. In gameplay, they turn out to be fine.

The trouble with using Balazar with RQM is that Balazar does not exist in Second Age Glorantha. Honest, it isn't there. Balazar rocks up towards the end of the EWF, unites the tribes, sets up Citadels, then goes off to kill some Dragons in the Dragonkill. He doesn't come back after that. So, if you want to run Griffin Mountain in the Second Age, run it as Votankiland, with Giants, more Elder Creatures, Dragonewt Cities on Dinosaurs, have Balazar the Hero rock up with his brand new cult and watch him take the Dragonewts out.

Similarly, if you are using Pavis in the Second Age, it is completely different to Pavis in the P&BR books.

If you are using RQM in Third Age Glorantha, then use the stats pretty much out of the books. That's what I am doing in my RQ3ish Pavis Campaign.
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Postby Urox » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:30 pm

soltakss wrote:RQ2 has Battle Magic and Rune Magic, so you might have to change them or keep the RQ2 spells. If you want Runecasting then you'd need to give each NPC Runecasting skills and Runes. Variable Battle Magic is no more, so give characters with high-pointage spells high Runecasting skills.
This is where I have been struggling in conversion -- it creates a plethora of runes floating around. A strong possibility is just to scrap the MQ RuneMagic system if you can get a copy of RQ2/3 and use the ould Battle/Common Magic system.
soltakss wrote:As for Balazar being too primitive for starting characters, that isn't true, really.
Balazar was partially developed as a hideout location from Dragon Pass/Prax, but it can work as a starting location.
soltakss wrote:Similarly, if you are using Pavis in the Second Age, it is completely different to Pavis in the P&BR books.
A Rough Guide to Pavis from the Chaos Society (and available thru Warehouse23) details Second Age Pavis.

And again, all the Moon Design books kick ass, and present some of the best and most innovative RPG material ever done.
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Postby Rurik » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:40 pm

Urox wrote:And again, all the Moon Design books kick ass, and present some of the best and most innovative RPG material ever done.
Hear Hear! He speaks the truth. Two few are the supplements that match the quality of these, and it has been well over 20 years.
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Postby Ozric » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:05 pm

Well, I'm not looking to do tons of extra work since I'm just looking to play and have fun. It sounds like I can get by with minimal conversion, but I'll probably play around a bit and see how much I'm really inclined to mess with.

If I use the Moon Design stuff for a campaign, I would just be keeping it in the Third Age. Last night I was reading about Dykene, and it seems like it might be a good region to kick off a game. They have some metal armor and weapons because of their relationship with the dwarves, and I think the Elder Wilds are near there, which sounds like might be some good adventuring.
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Postby Urox » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:25 pm

Ozric wrote:Well, I'm not looking to do tons of extra work since I'm just looking to play and have fun. It sounds like I can get by with minimal conversion, but I'll probably play around a bit and see how much I'm really inclined to mess with.
There are about 50 pages of stats to convert in Griffin Mountain, not a trivial task. We really ought to start a thread on conversion and work through some major PCs/NPCs.
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Postby TRose » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:45 pm

Although the name Balazar and the Citedals did not exist in second age Balazar. The Stone age primitives did.. Perhaps replace the citedals with trading post from the EWF's and have the 20 odd clans getting along as well as old Scottish Highland clans did with no Kingdoms above the Clan level.. The elder races would be a little stronger and the Vampire in the Elder wilds might be in prime health(He is dead in 3rd age Balazar.) The giants Castle would be almost unchange and could be a place to start players.

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