Character Sheet Is Up!!!

Discover the Legend RPG, Mongoose's fantasy game.
Gaheir
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Character Sheet Is Up!!!

Postby Gaheir » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:16 am

Just a quick note-the character sheet is available in the downloads. A quick look shows basic skills derived from pairs of stats or single stats and open space for advanced skills. Take a look.
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atgxtg
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Postby atgxtg » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:52 am

And it is ugly too. Looks like someone spent ten minutes on it in Excel. Dex gets a tiny little space, too. Where is John T. Sapienza when we need him?

On second thought, after looking at the skill formulas, I'm starting to have serious doubts about this game.
wartorn
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Postby wartorn » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:08 am

umm... lol?
SteveMND
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Postby SteveMND » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:20 am

"And it is ugly too. Looks like someone spent ten minutes on it in Excel. Dex gets a tiny little space, too. Where is John T. Sapienza when we need him?"
Yah, I can see a brisk third-party market in RQ character record sheets. This one is, well... let's just say that it is indeed 'functional' and leave it at that.

There are more fonts available out there besides the ones that came pre-installed on your PC, people! ;D

Heck, I'm not even sure I'm going to buy the game, and I'm already half-tempted to break out the old Pagemaker software and do a character sheet!
On second thought, after looking at the skill formulas, I'm starting to have serious doubts about this game"
Well, I see how they are trying to 'simplify' things there. I suppose as basic starting percentages, they vaguely replicate the old RQIII skill category modifiers and such. Simpler, yes, but to me, a needless simplification. Takes a lot of the 'flavor' out of the game system, I suppose. But simpler, yes, I'll give you that.

Then again, I never thought the old RQIII system was complicated or time consuming, either, so... :)
atgxtg
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Postby atgxtg » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:49 am

It's not so much the elemination of the category modifers for using stats that bothers me (I even did that myself for a RQ variant awhile back, after seeing ElfQuest). What I don't like is how the old "agility" skills are reduced to one stat, and then the one that they picked. For example STR is used for boating and unarmed combat. Since both skills had fairly high base % score in RQ III, why not have at STR+DEX? Especially as "Basic Close Combat" (I guess there must be an "Advanced Close Combat"- oh yeah, problem got to write it down under "Advanced Skills"). skill starts off at STR+DEX. Most people used to start off knowing how to punch at least as well as how to wield and axe.

Here is hoping that the sheet looks this way because the folks at Mongoose are busy working on the rules!
Gaheir
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Postby Gaheir » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:28 am

I, too, am having doubts about what I'm seeing. The sheet seems to be as bare bones functional as the pages shown so far in the previews. There is no indication that this is page one or side one of the sheet, so I'll assume that this is IT. No space for spells is not encouraging, nor is there space to list the neat seeming rune abilities. (Does this mean that magic is to be that rare, or such a low priority?) Keeping equipment on another sheet is ok, I guess. No enc value for armour, but one for weapons? And is your shield one of your two favoured weapons? Perhaps Sapienza's sheets were a little busy, but this is an extreme opposite. A starting character is going to need a separate sheet, or, I guess, just use the blank reverse side for those spells, extra weapon or two and other equipment. The few skills listed use up lots of space. Perhaps the space under close combat and ranged skills could be used for your weapons, but than why the favoured section at the bottom?
Yes, Steve, there will be a secondary market for character sheets, and I agree the old character generation rules were not complicated.

The sheet does also seem to clear up another question:There will not be a total HP.

Have Hero Points been addressed in a preview yet?
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andakitty
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Postby andakitty » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:03 am

It looks good to me. But then all I want is a good functional game, not something like WOTC or White Wolf put out.

I would imagine there will be multiple sheets, as in many other rpgs.
Enpeze
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Postby Enpeze » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:54 am

oh, I just saw the character sheet. Its, ahem...well....a little bit....lets say...unattractive. I liked the AH version better and the CoC sheets are also very nice. (as a professional layouter in RL I know that tastes about grafics are sometimes different, but this?)

some real problems besides looking not so good
-background picture is nice but it cannot be enjoyed because its mostly covered from these awful grey boxes.
-where are the skill checkboxes?
-the characteristic "Dexterity" has not the same space than the other characteristics...its looks like a layout failure.
-has anybody seen the skill checkboxes?

ok...there is also a nice thing with this character sheet
-simplicity, no unnecessary fluff and fuss. (anyone remembers the line about "parents occupation" on the AH sheet :)

Now to the content.
Characteristics:
-well the usual ones in BRP. Nice to see.
-where are the lines for the good old Luck Rolls, Idea Rolls etc?

Attibutes
-looks "functional"

Basic Skills
-Does anybody know what Persistence and Resilience are for?
-Unarmed seems to be the replacement skill for fist, kick etc.


Advanced Skills
-the area where you can insert your own skills. ok.

Favoured ... Weapons
-lets hope that noone carries more than 2 close combat or ranged weapons. :)

Hit locations
-functional, but I would have liked better a picture like in Warhammer or the AH version, but well... It looks like the second table for ranged hits has been gone.

All in all, I am a little bit disappointed about the layout of this character sheet, especially if I compare it with the much better layout of the previews.
Last edited by Enpeze on Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lakritsploppen
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Postby Lakritsploppen » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:19 am

I must say mongoose fix this.. it.. it.. so horrible (in a negative way).. The charsheet.. ghhhaaa!!!!! :shock: :shock:
But it seems that Resistance skill is like fortitude and Persistence is like will save just as in d20.. hmm im starting to fear that this is .. no, no it can't be a d20 clone..

--

Its cool, im fine ..
ned-kogar
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Postby ned-kogar » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:28 am

On the plus side, I prefer Cha to App..
Gallowglass
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Postby Gallowglass » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:43 am

:shock:

Ye Gods, even by Mongooses' lamentably low standards that is awfully ugly - and even if the grey boxes were fixed, you'd still have a far too heavy watermark creating graphical noise underneath the entries.

Hmm. Perhaps Mongoose should have take the Margaret Weiss Productions / Serenity RPG option?

Cheers,

NDM
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Postby Chardros The Reaper » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:18 pm

By the Weis/Serenity option, do you mean NO character sheet at all, Gallowglass? :D

Well, personally, I don't know if I'm just picky but I've rarely seen any "official" character sheet I've been happy with. They are largely subjective. There's only two games I never came up with my own alternate sheet for and that was the old Stormbringer and Call of Cthulhu sheets. I'll agree that this one is definitely unattractive, but in the end it's not such a big deal. I would create a new sheet using the great Chaosium template.

It is very frustrating that proffesionals have access to all sorts of layout artists and technology and we still have to spend valuable gaming time coming up with our own character sheets.
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Character Sheet

Postby WildHealer » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:25 pm

Hmm... yup, this is pretty ugly. Certainly lacks all of the charm of the old Sapienza sheets, and even the AH version. I guess we'll all mock up our own versions if Mongoose don't beat us to it - RQ certainly had more than one charsheet in its history!

On the rules side, I'm seconding the "concern" about Drive, Resilience, and Persistence in the Basic Skills section. These sound suspiciously like D20 saving throws - I can't imagine in what sense they are meant to be "skills": in RQ they would normally be dealt with by attribute rolls.

Lack of language skills and the "Perception" skill also grate - so now we have Listen, Taste, Spot Hidden, Search, etc, all having a single skill? Not sure about that one.

Regarding the skill types (Agility, Manipulation, etc) of RQ, it looks like these are still implicit, but that maybe there aren't enough skills in the basic list to merit the division. IE you have the various Lore skills, First Aid, Evaluate, etc, which may have been "Knowledge" skills previously, but are no longer divided like that. Removing the skill types has maybe changed the flavour of the skill system somewhat, but to be honest you could easily replace it by changing the layout of the skill section in the charsheet! Probably not such a big deal. More of a question is how do you calculate the Base Chance - is it just your attribute value? IE, do you start off with equal ratings in First Aid and Evaluate, or is there a Base Chance also associated with the skill which you add the att modifier to?

Guess I'll just have to wait and see! Looks like there's going to be a LOT more to get used to in this new edition than there was from 1st ed to 2nd, or 2nd to 3rd. Only time will tell if it still feels recognisably like RuneQuest.

Sarah

ps: please can someone resurrect the old hit location silhouette? I always thought that was an excellent part of the charsheet, and a bit of the "old" RQ flavour I can see no real reason to do away with.
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Postby seanwalsh » Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:27 pm

I think the Basic Skills are like Skill categories. I assume they will form the basis for the advanced skills.
Here is what msprange said in an earlier thread refering to comments about broadening skills, like "stealth" instead of "hide" and "move silently":
"The broadening of skills was something we learned during our D20 work (see Lone Wolf, for example), and have found it works very well. Your example of hiding and moving is a classic situation that it resolves. On the other hand, the new RQ gets the best of both worlds, because of the advanced skills. Everyone gets a chance to do something in a situation, precisely because of the broad nature of the skills, but the advanced set, for those taking the trouble to build them up, will offer very distinct advantages. On top of that, they are not in set categories, so you can literally make a new advanced skill in anything - 97% in Camel-Worrying, for example. . ."
However, can someone tell me the difference between Acrobatics (DEX) and Athletics (STR+DEX)?
I am not interested in complaints about the way it looks or is laid out, but I too miss the little graphic representation of the hit locations. I will certainly keep that, when I revamp my old Char sheets from long ago.
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Postby Lord Twig » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:04 pm

Well, the character sheet can use some improvement. But game-wise I don't see a problem.

The space for Dexterity is an obvious error that needs to be fixed.

Drive, Persistence and Resilience were already mentioned and I don't think they are deal breakers. I will have to see how they play out.

As for lack of spells, don't forget that they already have a Rune Sheet up. That sheet actually looks pretty good! Again, I will have to see how it plays out compared to Battle/Spirit Magic.

There is not enough room for weapons and no room for equipment. That is a problem. I could easily squeeze what is shown on the character sheet down to fit in more weapons and equipment.

We still do not know if there is a base skill percentage that is added to the stat. The weapons list doesn't show them and they are not on the character sheet, but that does not mean they are not there.

We still do not know how to increase skills. Will there be skill checks? I hope so, but if not I will wait to see what there is before I decide whether I like it or not.

I would like to see the little figure for Hit Locations as well. One glance at the figure and you know that this is not D&D and that there are Hit Locations.

Anyway, character sheets are easy and a matter of personal taste. Hopefully Mongoose will come out with an alternative for those of us that want it.
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Postby Halfbat » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:08 pm

The broad skills were used in SST, too (e.g. athletics). I think it works pretty well as the plethora of more finite skills often gets too bogged down. As we've got advanced skillsets, too, we can get the both of best worlds! Sounds an ok approach to me...

It is a pity the first cut sheet is so unimpressive, though. It does look very like an Excel layout. :( Which makes it easy to build your own Excel character spread sheet :D

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atgxtg
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Postby atgxtg » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:12 pm

Guessing:

I think the Drive skill is the old Drive Cart skill.

I also think that Athletics is for things like Running, Climbing, and Swimming.

Acrobatis on the olther hand is more for cartwhells and flips.


It looks like they turned the old skill categories into skills and advanced skills will be like sub-skills. Seems to be like what Chaosium did with Ringworld-up to and including the doubled hit points and revised Strike Ranks.

Resilience and Persistence could be like saving throws. I.E> use Resilience to resist poision. On the other hand they could just be skills for things like Forced March, or even Healing Rate. Can't tell unitl the book is out.


THe big question: Is this new game RuneQuest in name only?
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andakitty
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Postby andakitty » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:28 pm

Maybe the basic skills are like default skills...you know, skills that you have some ability to use successfully even without training. Sometimes they may act as prerequisites for advanced skills, sometimes not. Acrobatics may be the equivalent of the 'Balance' skill in Stormbringer 1e.

The skills Resilience and Persistence look like they are to replace the old CON and POW rolls. They were mentioned in the preview pages in relation to fatigue and movement. My only question there is whether or not Mongoose has done away with attribute rolls and resistance rolls altogether.

The character sheet may be only the first of a set. This would not be the first game that used multiple sheets. I notice that pretty much everything on it consists of things that tend to be most used.

If it is what some consider 'RQ in name only', so what? It certainly looks like a playable version of BRP, from what I can see, and without jumping to all sorts of silly conclusions.
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Postby Cobra » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:08 pm

seanwalsh wrote: However, can someone tell me the difference between Acrobatics (DEX) and Athletics (STR+DEX)?
It's a no-brainer: Athletics is for jumping and Acrobatics is for landing. :roll:


I agree, it's really ugly and bland. And what is with this silly trend for grey watermarks on pages these days? Give me a clean white page with a nice font any day!

Unfortunately, the doubts that I had from the previews have now been magnified. I wonder if the supplements will be easy to convert to RQ3?

Cobra :shock: :( :cry:
GbajiTheDeceiver
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Postby GbajiTheDeceiver » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:54 pm

Yeeeech. It's VILE.

But it is only one person's (or more likely one committee's) idea of what a character sheet could look like. And we all have our own views on that.

I for one am more interested in what it has to reveal about the game mechanics, so here goes.

I don't like the use of the word "Profession" there. Frankly, it scares me.

"Persistence" and "Resilience" are obviously saving throws by the back door. It's kinda neat that they can be skilled up, though.

The lack of "Level" or "Experience Points" is heartwarming to see. I'd assume that the same mechanism as before applies, only with this sheet you circle the number or something. Hopefully you don't expend "Hero Points" (yuck! die!) on Skill increases. Please say it ain't so.

"Combat Actions" - why? Is the number of actions you have now seperated from SR?

Lack of space for Equipment and Spells is just plain silly. Admittedly, RQ never did place heavy emphasis on Equipment - witness the RQ2 "Adventurer's Pack", for example. But no Spells? Does that mean that everybody doesn't know Magic? Or is there a separate "Spell Sheet"?

Use of Characteristics for Basic Skills doesn't mean that there isn't also an initial value.

We have Cultures, but no indication of how they affect character generation (if at all).

Overall, does it feel like RQ? Well, to be honest, adding up everything we've seen so far, the answer has to be "no". It feels like a distant second cousin with a vague family resemblance alright, but that's about it.

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