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If the minis are being dumped, why even publish another game

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:30 pm
by Bugpocalypse
I know this seems like a silly question, but if Mongoose is dropping all their minis, why even bother making more games? VaS and CTA play good with counters, but some games wouldn't (sst, BE), so with no fig support, is there honestly any logical reason to publish a new game/genre? I really hope mongoose stays in business, but you really need more than just rules. :cry:

Re: If the minis are being dumped, why even publish another

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:53 pm
by Hoghose
Bugpocalypse wrote:I know this seems like a silly question, but if Mongoose is dropping all their minis, why even bother making more games? VaS and CTA play good with counters, but some games wouldn't (sst, BE), so with no fig support, is there honestly any logical reason to publish a new game/genre? I really hope mongoose stays in business, but you really need more than just rules. :cry:
Huh?

Are you seriously saying that without minis, you cant play RPGs? Or am I completely off here?

Ive never used minis until I came across Conan, and all games Ive played previously havent even got any mini-support at all. Basically everyone I know play without minis and most of Swedens community as well. Ive managed without them for 15 years. If Im right to assume you´re talking about p&p games then I think your statement is rather cretinous...IMHO. No offence.

If you meant something else, then I have no comment... :D

umm right

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:31 pm
by Bugpocalypse
VaS = Victory At Sea, a miniatures combat game.
CTA = Call To Arms, a miniatures combat game.
SST = Starship Troopers, a miniatures combat game.

there's a subtle theme here. and no offense taken, I just think we weren't on the same page as i dont do rpg's but tabletop combat only.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:39 pm
by Hiromoon
VaS's concept was to take advantage of currently existing miniatures in the market.

CTA and SST, I'll grant ya

BF:MC follows VaS's concept.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:02 pm
by Xorrandor
Bugpocalypse wrote:VaS = Victory At Sea, a miniatures combat game.
CTA = Call To Arms, a miniatures combat game.
SST = Starship Troopers, a miniatures combat game.

there's a subtle theme here. and no offense taken, I just think we weren't on the same page as i dont do rpg's but tabletop combat only.
Well, Mongoose started out as an RPG company, and still publishes RPGs, so this is partially a case of different pages. They have never been solely about tabletop gaming.

But I also disagree that you can't make a business out of just rules. It won't be a big business, or in this case business unit, but there are people who publish rulesets and that's it. And I think there's plenty of modern and WWII minis out there if you want to design rules for those periods.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:43 pm
by JayRaider
Rulebooks are good earners, low production and investment costs compared to miniatures.
Future rulebooks under the Evo title will be getting third party miniature support.
Mongoose make good rulesets.
Very few would argue that point.
And most importantly, they sell enough to make a reasonable profit.
:)

Hmmm.

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:05 am
by brook
"Future rulebooks under the Evo title will be getting third party miniature support."

There is no evidence to support such a statement. It appears to be a general call to any third party miniature makers to save the day. However, I haven't heard anyone taking the pitch.

"Mongoose make good rulesets. Very few would argue that point."

The pages fell out of my first BEVO ruleset. Quality control in the book line has been somewhat suspect. Now, the whole miniature line is dead.

Mongoose has a lot of great ideas. the company started the line with 4 miniature lines. Now they have none. The company started 2007 with Mr. Sprange claiming that mongoose will be the first company to have prepainted miniatures. Now the company has been driven from the miniatures market.

I certainly wish the company well.

Re: Hmmm.

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:12 am
by Poi
"Future rulebooks under the Evo title will be getting third party miniature support."

As Evo will be historical and present day, there are already bucket loads of miniatures available. It doesn't need to be tied to a particular manufacturer.

Other rules sets already manage this, why not Mongoose?

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:51 am
by DM
Rulebooks are good earners, low production and investment costs compared to miniatures.
Depends on the company. I know that Peter Pig regard the miniatures lines as the major profit earning side of their business, with the rulebooks as a handy (but minor) sideline.

Re: umm right

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:01 pm
by Hoghose
Bugpocalypse wrote:VaS = Victory At Sea, a miniatures combat game.
CTA = Call To Arms, a miniatures combat game.
SST = Starship Troopers, a miniatures combat game.

there's a subtle theme here. and no offense taken, I just think we weren't on the same page as i dont do rpg's but tabletop combat only.
My mistake, sorry for that. :oops:

no worries. :)

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:15 pm
by Bugpocalypse
Hey no problem. :) Ya a good buddy of mine and I are about to jump into Flames of War (basically WWII 40K,lol) and with a mountain of good fig makers out there I don't mind that they put their work into really good rules and let us find our figs where we will. Games that you can actually get 3rd party figs for is ok, but SST isn't gonna work without the official ones unless you use Tyranids and Space Marines/tau for them but then you have to sell a kidney to pay GW's prices. And to be fair, Mongoose puts out very good rulesets and it is a business after all and they can't be expected to keep makin minis and let the whole ship sink. Its just a wee aggravating to find yet another really cool game that 5 minutes after I buy the rule books and start picking out my 1st army, croaks. I'm beginning to agree with Q that he and I are the kiss of death for a system. lol.

Re: no worries. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:31 am
by darklord4
Bugpocalypse wrote:I'm beginning to agree with Q that he and I are the kiss of death for a system. lol.
Nope, that's me.
I bought some SST at its release, but had it in the closet in the 'do this once I'm done with my current 40k army' list. Unfortunately, 3 armies preempted into that queue and I got out the SST minis and started playing and painting them 2 weeks before the first stop of the SST minis when they announced a switch to prepaints...and truly, things never recovered after the BF:Evo debacle...

With ACTA, the time jumped to 6 weeks between my first game and they announce no more minis.

When you make rules for a genre that is full of figures, e.g. WWII, you only have to compete on one front, the rules front. (Something could be said here about fighting on 2 fronts...) You can then focus on making the rules fun and interesting without having to figure out how to make the rules make people want to buy more expensive thousand sons chaos marines...

I have to add that from my observation, the most enduring games have their own universe that grew with the game, e.g. 40k, Battletech, Magic, and Warmachine. I won't say which one of those I play, so as to preserve its life...

Re: no worries. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:14 am
by AKAramis
darklord4 wrote: I have to add that from my observation, the most enduring games have their own universe that grew with the game, e.g. 40k, Battletech, Magic, and Warmachine. I won't say which one of those I play, so as to preserve its life...
You missed a couple: Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles (both DP9), Striker/Striker II (Traveller), and SFB....

Re: no worries. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:56 am
by Paladin
darklord4 wrote:
Bugpocalypse wrote:I'm beginning to agree with Q that he and I are the kiss of death for a system. lol.
Nope, that's me.
I'm in the same boat. The last 3 games I've bought $200-400+ in minis for have tanked in a year or less.

Re: no worries. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:34 pm
by darklord4
Paladin wrote:
darklord4 wrote:
Bugpocalypse wrote:I'm beginning to agree with Q that he and I are the kiss of death for a system. lol.
Nope, that's me.
I'm in the same boat. The last 3 games I've bought $200-400+ in minis for have tanked in a year or less.
I've taken to playing games where I can scratch build minis.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:12 am
by weasel_fierce
Thats why I play games where I can use any mini's I'd like.

Versatility...

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:06 am
by Gist_Engine
weasel_fierce wrote:Thats why I play games where I can use any mini's I'd like.
Indeed. And continuing to support the rules w/o producing minis is not the end of the game. Throw in a modified Eldar Jetbike if you need to.

Re: no worries. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:57 pm
by Shallowain
Paladin wrote:
darklord4 wrote:
Bugpocalypse wrote:I'm beginning to agree with Q that he and I are the kiss of death for a system. lol.
Nope, that's me.
I'm in the same boat. The last 3 games I've bought $200-400+ in minis for have tanked in a year or less.
Me too, I was about to order 2 ACTA fleets to really get into the game when I read the anouncement. Now this is very unlikely to happen.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:38 am
by Standing-Stone
looks like I picked abad time to ask about the possibility of official minatures made for the Slaine RuneQuest game.

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:31 am
by Tacobake
am I allowed to say this here? Honestly, Mongoose' miniatures are kind of ugly, there's reasons why people tend not to buy them.

If Mongoose' Lone Wolf line was on par with GW's LotR line, I would have picked up the whole collection. As such all I am looking for is one pack, and I would have picked up Darklords had they made them.