Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

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Seji
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Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby Seji » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:54 am

Hi,

I need some help understanding dealing damage to NPCs.

Player's handbook states that:
"For each extra success you roll – each 5 or 6 that is above the difficulty level set by the GM – you do one level of damage to your target."

While the Mission Book says that:
"When a player rolls to hurt an NPC (or a group of NPCs represented by a single stat-block), they inflict one level of damage if they equal the target’s defence, two if they beat it by two, three if they beat it by three, and so on."

GM book says nothing about the above apart from defence while speaking about armor but apparently in the Mission Book some clones have defence but no armor.

So, let's say there is a traitor that a Troubleshooter wants to shoot at.

Case 1 (Players book): difficulty level is 1. Player needs 2 successes to hit the target and inflict 1 damage. (This is actually backed up with "breaking stuff" rules)

Case 2 (Mission book): traitor's defence is 1. Player needs 1 success to hit the target and inflict 1 damage.

In the Mission Book some targets have defence, others don't. My guess is that damage procedure got changed somehow during production.

Which version of the rules is correct? Maybe I'm missing something and hitting and damaging targets is a separate case from hitting and damaging targets with defence?
msprange
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Re: Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby msprange » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:40 pm

The official answer is: Either, both, or nothing at all!

Consider this like the armour rules - you can use these methods, or simply choose the result. It is important to remember that Paranoia is not like other RPGs at all,and we absolutely encourage GMs not to slavishly follow the rules all the time. Or at all. Once you move behind the GMs screen, the mechanics become kind of irrelevant (which is why we pushed the functioning of combat onto the players - a Paranoia GM need not engage in anything so mundane). What is key is that the players are having fun.If they are, then no one gives a traitor's left foot whether a given NPC has taken one hit or two.

Let the players run the mechanics, and go with what seems most appropriate/funny. When you are sitting behind the GM screen, any mechanics of the game are absolutely secondary to the mission being played.

I would suggest re-reading the rules on armour in the GMs book (such as they are!) and then apply that thinking to everything you do behind the GMs screen.

That is how we would suggest approaching the mantle of Paranoia GM.
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
allenshock1
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Re: Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby allenshock1 » Sun May 06, 2018 3:33 am

I am confused.

I understand that NPCs don't roll, only PCs do, So how do I figure out how much damage an NPC weapon does to a PC? is there a fixed number? Because PC armor would eat successes (or wounds).

Allen
Shai
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Re: Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby Shai » Mon May 07, 2018 9:05 pm

I would suggest to read the GM's book sections: "But that is not fair" (page 15) and "How do I know what happens?" (pages 16-18).
To make a long story short* you have 3 factors to how much damage PC's take:
1) Player action/reaction (Including cards). How a player reacts to a situation will determine if he is damaged and how bad.
2) Player roll, including Computer Dice, failures, cards and armor.
3) Narative/Whatever is interesting.

If you still feel that it is too confusing: I, occasionally, give the NPCs (the powerfull ones) a rating to guns\throw\melee\other, and that rating is the amount of damage that the PC's need to resist (In accordance to armor\other rules).

If you still feel that you don't get the hang of it, complete page 18 ("...and I mean it").

*in contrary to "Too long; Didn't read"- accepting that one didn't read their security clearance guides as instructed is treason.
wjmacguffin
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Re: Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby wjmacguffin » Tue May 08, 2018 1:12 pm

Seji wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:54 am
So, let's say there is a traitor that a Troubleshooter wants to shoot at.

Case 1 (Players book): difficulty level is 1. Player needs 2 successes to hit the target and inflict 1 damage. (This is actually backed up with "breaking stuff" rules)

Case 2 (Mission book): traitor's defence is 1. Player needs 1 success to hit the target and inflict 1 damage.

In the Mission Book some targets have defence, others don't. My guess is that damage procedure got changed somehow during production.

Which version of the rules is correct? Maybe I'm missing something and hitting and damaging targets is a separate case from hitting and damaging targets with defence?
This is my personal take on this and not necessarily the views of the Paranoia Gods.

I treat defence ratings as increasing the difficulty. If the difficulty is 1 and the target has Defence 1, then the difficulty is really 2. That means the player must roll 3 successes to cause a Hurt condition (1 for the difficulty, 1 for the defense, and 1 to cause a wound). If the defence rating comes from armour, I degrade that by reducing its defence rating by 1 for each success it blocks.

This makes the first round(s) harder (to give players more time to shoot things, they really like that) but the subsequent rounds easier (to prevent combat from taking forever, yes Pathfinder, I'm looking in your direction).

However, like it says above, don't sweat it. As weird as it may sound, think of the Paranoia GM as less referee and more artist. Don't explain that you're changing the rules to the players. Just describe the results as you think they should happen.

- Is the team having way too much luck so far? Huh, combat is now harder. Go figure.
- Is the team shockingly incompetent even for Troubleshooters? Huh, combat is now easier. Go figure.

Adjust things as needed to craft a positive, funny and engaging Paranoia experience. This is one of the few games that lets you do that, so go hog wild with it!
allenshock1
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Re: Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby allenshock1 » Tue May 08, 2018 5:38 pm

I'm not opposed to the idea of the GM not rolling but I would have found it more helpful if the game included a mechanic for the PCs defending against NPC attacks, so when the Pc act, they roll to attack, and when they are attacked, they roll to defend. It just makes things a little easier for me. I know I can do this, but I wish it had been in the game itself.
Shai
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Re: Paranoia RCE - contradictory NPC damage rules?

Postby Shai » Thu May 10, 2018 8:11 am

The game includes mechanics for GM rolling (GM book page 18) and for PC defense (GM book pages 15-18):
The GM gives the PC's a chance to react (as long as the PC's don't "block, dodge or evade" Players book page 39), the PC's could react by taking an action that makes things interesting (pull the fire alarm, jump out of/into a moving vehicle etc.), reacting to the situation (if the PC sees someone shooting while he opens the door-he can close it, if he just picked up something-he can throw it towards his attacker etc.) or using a reaction card.

Another mechanic that could be used is the "up close and personal" (Player's book page 40) it says that a player may spend an action card to avoid taking damage. (It says between two characters, you may decide if it's between 2 players or between any 2 characters.)

If you prefer to simplify you can make melee or athletics as a defense roll for melee attacks and armor is the defense for ranged attacks.

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