High Energy Turn

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Nretnimoc
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High Energy Turn

Postby Nretnimoc » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:56 pm

Okay, have a question about this special order. It has been used twice in our games to devastating effect and it has always raised questions.

Now, it reads a little strangely but we interpret it as such:

Unlike other orders you carry out your move as you would normally, taking into account your first turn, and turning as much as you want with regards to the 180 degree turn. Then you make your crew check and if you succeed, you can continue making a bonus turn up to 180 degrees, assuming you did not turn a full 180 to start with.


the situation was such.

CA - Graf Spree conducted a H.E.T. and completed a 135 degree turn (three 45 degree segments) to turn about and bring her photons torpedoes to bare on a klingon D6 running alongside her Starboard. Also to realign her phaser banks to attack the Klingon Fleet as a whole. (working on the battle report for this.)

The Turn was made, then the crew quality check was made on a CQ of Military Grade. Rolled a 5, total of 9, success.

the example and the explanation, are we doing it correctly? Conduct the turn first, then make the roll. Cause it seems silly to roll first on this one and then see you fail and be 'oh well, Id rather not blow my impulse all to hell, so I Dont turn'
billclo
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby billclo » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:13 pm

We've been playing it thusly:

Conduct your movement to the point where you want to make the HET. Announce how many degrees approximately you want to turn (ie, 90, 135, 180 degrees), make the roll BEFORE you physically make the turn you are rolling for. If you succeed in the Crew Quality Check, go ahead and move the miniature the appropriate degrees. If you fail the CCQ , the ship doesn't move and you take your Impulse critical hits.

The part of the rule that says take one Impulse Critical for ever 45 "extra" you tried to turn has been a bone of contention a couple of times. I just now rule that if you fail the HET roll, that non-Agile ships take 1 Impulse Critical for every 45 degree segment attempted, but you don't count the first 45 degrees - since the ship is capable of turning 45 degrees, and anything over that over stresses the hull. An Agile ship gets the first 90 degrees free, and takes a Impulse Crit for every 45 degree segment over the free 90 degrees - again, the hull can handle a 90 degree turn and is over stressed by more than that.
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby Nretnimoc » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:29 pm

Wait, then by that logic, shouldnt you still get the turn? It states thats in the rules.

If you dont proceed with the turn then what caused the damage? Your ship 'knew you were going to do it' so it throws its hip out in anticipation?

I think that is what they mean by getting the bonus turn radius if you wanted. If you succeed you can complete the turn, however you get the turn that caused the damage if you fail.
billclo
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby billclo » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:11 pm

Here's what the rules say about HETs (under HET Special Action, page 13):

"Pushing the ship's engines to dangerous levels, the Captain orders his ship to turn hard to gain a position of advantage. The ship can increase one turn by up to 180 degrees or make an additional turn of up to 180 degrees at any point in it's movement (without having to move up to it's turn score first). If the Crew Quality Check is failed, then the ship does NOT gain an extra turn and automatically increases the Critical Score of it's Impulse Drive by 1 for every 45 degrees extra it tried to turn."

Poorly written rule, IMHO.

One could interpret it this way:
1) Increase a normal turn by up to 180 degrees (ie, up to a 225 degree turn for non-Agile ship, up to 270 degrees for an Agile ship).
2) Make an extra turn (one that you didn't earn by moving at least your Turn Score since your last turn) of up to 180 degrees.

Now, the rule says that if the CCQ is failed, then the ship does NOT get an extra turn.

One could interpret that as:
1) If making a normal turn (earned by moving at least your Turn Score) PLUS increase the turn by up to 180, then you get your turn but not your "extra" up to 180 degrees turn.
or 2) The entire earned + "extra" turn is wasted and you sit there and don't turn.
or
3) If making an "extra" turn that the ship did not earn by moving at least it's Turn Score, then you lose that turn. The entire turn was "wasted" and you sit there.

I guess one could rationalize the whole failure of the CCQ and the ship not moving is that you had to boost engine output/rebalance the warp field to make such a hard turn and when you failed the roll, something blew in the Engineering section before the turn was completed. :D

How do you interpret the above rule section?
Iain McGhee
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby Iain McGhee » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:12 pm

Slightly different depending on how you use the HET:

If you're taking the extra turn option, you'd announce the amount at the point of turning and roll accordingly. If you failed, you wouldn't make the turn and take damage as per the rules.

If you're increasing the rate of one of your turns, you'd announce the amount at the point of turning and roll accordingly. If you fail, you'd take damage and would only make your normal max. turn in the direction announced.

The damage caused is worked out as billclo stated in the second case, but in the first I'd say you wouldn't subtract the normal turn rate from the HET amount since it's all extra turn.
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby billclo » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:32 pm

Iain McGhee wrote:Slightly different depending on how you use the HET:

If you're taking the extra turn option, you'd announce the amount at the point of turning and roll accordingly. If you failed, you wouldn't make the turn and take damage as per the rules.

If you're increasing the rate of one of your turns, you'd announce the amount at the point of turning and roll accordingly. If you fail, you'd take damage and would only make your normal max. turn in the direction announced.

The damage caused is worked out as billclo stated in the second case, but in the first I'd say you wouldn't subtract the normal turn rate from the HET amount since it's all extra turn.
That makes more sense than what I have been doing, Iain. :)
Nretnimoc
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby Nretnimoc » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:43 pm

The way my friend an I rationalized it out and think we will roll with is the following:

1. At the start of your turn, declare a H.E.T.
2. Either begin your turn (if you are dedicating your entire move to sitting in place and turning) or move the required distance to start your initial turn.
3. Turn your ship the desired # for 45* upto 180* (ignoring agile trait, for this) and make your crew check roll and apply results.
4. If check is successful, then complete your HET up to that 180* after the required movement is made.

Our reasoning is this. The Purpose of the HET is to bring your ship about.
billclo wrote:"Pushing the ship's engines to dangerous levels, the Captain orders his ship to turn hard to gain a position of advantage.
This means, even if your ship is agile or you are moving your normal 45* you are already pressing the engines as if you wish to conduct the HET. So regardless, you are going to take an impulse hit for each and every 45* turn you take, whether your agile or not. Anything else would just cheat the action and be really really cheesy. From a story position, you are already pushing the engines before you start it. You arent making that first 45* turn under normal safe conditions. The power has been diverted, the engines are on build, the whole thing is in motion. Its now up to a Captain's faith in his crew on how far he pushes their ship.

The rest will make the order entirely situational. In my original example, I made a 135* turn from a standstill, voiding my movement completely to make one turn, meaning I had to go all in. A fail would have been 3 hits to the impulse drive. In addition, because I chose to remain stationary, I could not move and completely a second turn.

It is a poorly written and thought through rule. There is absolutely no reason to make a 225* turn. Why not just turn right instead of left and make 135* turn that direction? I Think this break down will serve us. Besides, right now all we have are Klingons vs. Federation and how many times would a Klingon captain really need to do this maneuver?


p.s. this is all from a perspective of ACTA:SF being the only game we have played in the Starfleet universe.
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scoutdad
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Re: High Energy Turn

Postby scoutdad » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:17 pm

Iain is correct:
You declare the HET special action before moving...
Move to the point where the HET is to be executed...
Roll the CQC...
Success = make turn and continue moving...
Failure = take Impulse Critical Hits...
And although the rules do not spell it out as such, we end the movement there on a failed CQC...
To represent the breakdown from SFB / Fed Comm.

And there is never any reason to make more than a 180 degree turn.
You simply turn in the "other" direction...

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