Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:20 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:Plus with long range Drones they can hit one of your ships with 22AD or so before you have even left the deployment zone.
Maybe. On average, you will get smacked in the face with 7 or 8, and most larger ships can handle that (not as if they will be in range to use phasers offensively).

However... Everything, _everything_ in Fleet Updates is playtest material - which is why it is free ;). We want considered (this means actually played with!) comments and suggestions, and you are free to range from 'this ship should be XX points more,' to 'Hell no to that rule in this game!'
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Da Boss » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:26 pm

thats fine - although you will try and hammer the support ships first to get rid of their in sinks and IDF protection.

There are a couple of "is this actually intended?":

The added phaser 3's line in the Enterprise refit but nothing in the stat lines.
The C6 vs C9 points being the same when one ship gets lots of extra goodies?
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Captain Jonah » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:29 pm

msprange wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Plus with long range Drones they can hit one of your ships with 22AD or so before you have even left the deployment zone.
Maybe. On average, you will get smacked in the face with 7 or 8, and most larger ships can handle that (not as if they will be in range to use phasers offensively).

However... Everything, _everything_ in Fleet Updates is playtest material - which is why it is free ;). We want considered (this means actually played with!) comments and suggestions, and you are free to range from 'this ship should be XX points more,' to 'Hell no to that rule in this game!'
Kzinti DND with 18AD of Drones. HELL NOOOOOOOOOOO. :lol:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Da Boss » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:39 pm

According to the ADB board, the document will be updated next week to deal with some minor issues.

I have made a compliation thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=55697

:)
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Iain McGhee » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:33 pm

Captain Jonah wrote: I take it that the Gorn BC which is the refitted heavy cruiser is considered, like the D7, to be a cruiser and therefore not restricted to two ships.
Should be. Couldn't find the full list over at ADB, but it was 2x Heavy Battlecruisers max per 12 ships in the draft rules.
Captain Jonah wrote: Armoured drones. Since an ADD is an automatic kill I assume here that you roll two D6 per armoured drone and empty the rack on a one as usual. This does mean that on average a 3-4AD ship with armoured Drones will use up one AD of ADD ammo every salvo.
Doubt it. I'd still think it's roll 1 ADD die per attacking AD of drones as per the rules, but you then half the hits. Better hope you're lucky with the tractor rolls :)
Captain Jonah wrote: Given that a Drone ship must replace all drone racks within a block with the same type of launcher and warhead but if it has separate racks each can have a different type of rack or warhead can we have a ruling on which ships end up with separate racks or combine racks into a single unit. For example the DWD replacing 3 Photons with Drones, is that Drones 3AD/1AD or 4AD. Likewise the Orion Salvager with Drones 4AD and two optional mounts.
That one's pretty clear. The likes of the SAL has separate racks (different mounts). The DWD states that you increase the drones to 4 and remove the torps, not replace them. The ship record card bears this out with a single 4AD mount for this variant.
Captain Jonah wrote: Loophole alert for the Feds. Switching to type IV drones costs 5 points per rack, removes the multi hit and devastating and doubles the AD, for defence this is very useful since any Drone hit destroys an incoming Drone. So a Fed ship with 2AD would pay 10 points to gain 4AD of type 6s, I hope that does not translate into 4AD of ADDs using the Federation combined Drone rack rule but the rule does not say this some people will try it. Otherwise the flattops are suddenly going to double the ADD on all ships with 1-2 Drones.
I think you mean VIs, but that's probably working as intended. I mean, you are loading up the rack fully with anti-fighter/anti-drone missiles rather than mixed offensive Drones/ADDs.

Hah Kzintis, we laugh at your DND (for one turn anyway :)).
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Da Boss » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:11 pm

I have put on the Q thread but ADB asked for this to be posted over here :)

Definitions list:
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Command Cruisers include any CC, Fed CB, any CCH, Klingon D7C, D6C; Romulan SuperHawk, RoyalHawk-A, and NovaHawk-A.
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Heavy Cruisers include Romulan KR, K7R; Klingon D6, D7, E7; any BC (not otherwise listed) or CA.
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New Heavy Cruisers include any NCA; Klingon D5W; Romulan FireHawk, RegentHawk; Gorn CS and CM.
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Heavy Battlecruiser: including BCH; Fed BC, BCG, BCF, BCJ, BCP; Klingon C7; Romulan NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.;
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Stu-- » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:57 pm

Isn't it a little strange that we can now have some super fast drones (re-roll defensive hits) but the poor old plasma users don't get this.

Since, in SFB anyway they are both speed 32 then it makes no sense for one to have this rule but for the other not to. I would really like to see something like this added to plasma in general. Right now, the plasma is a bit easy to stop.
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Captain Jonah » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:45 pm

We Gorn have broad shoulders, we are used to this sort of thing :wink:

The Romulans being flimsy run off and hide.

Oh well, back to hugging the terrain like my life depended on it since it does, two poor little escorts against Kzinti DND fleets or Fed DWD squadron/Kzinti D6D squadron and attached scout with armoured/long range Drones :roll:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Myrm » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:52 pm

Stu-- wrote:Isn't it a little strange that we can now have some super fast drones (re-roll defensive hits) but the poor old plasma users don't get this.
Much agreed - I forgot to add that in on my comments on Type IIs and Vs.
Since, in SFB anyway they are both speed 32 then it makes no sense for one to have this rule but for the other not to. I would really like to see something like this added to plasma in general. Right now, the plasma is a bit easy to stop.
Drones are slower than that - at least as a base, they get faster by General War time but that was the whole issue I had with IIs and Vs - is this Slow, Medium or Fast engines on a II or V modification and all these range from Speed8 upwards and yes Plasma doesnt get this defence due to speed (though there is the possiblity that as a fixed speed they feel they had playtested the plasma speed into the game)
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby McKinstry » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:54 pm

Since ADD's auto kill the drone wave rolling only to see if they run out, it only makes sense that they number of dice rolled to determine if they run out is doubled as armored drones require twice the hits.
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Iron Domokun » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:29 am

From an SFU background perspective, ADDs should kill armoured drones as easily as unarmoured. When firing at drones, they either hit (and kill) or miss. Also, Type-II and Type-V drones aren't speed 32. They are speed 12, and were only in use when all drones were speed 8. When medium-speed (speed 20) drones became common, they became obsolete. Seeing those drones described as super fast hurt my brain.
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby firekite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:18 am

i would think that the plasma club will get some goodies (firing type "R" launchers as 5 type "F", carronade, pseudo's,bolting,etc..) before to long.

carriers are considered "borders of madness" for FC. they will show up in the future but how or when is for Svc to decide.

thank you for the new toys.
what other battlestar ?
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby nekomata fuyu » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:48 am

msprange wrote:
Allerka wrote:Oh, jeez, you went and made drones more complicated anyway, despite the multiple requests not to. Ugh.
The complication is minor and is in the set up/fleet building, not actual play (drones can have different stats, but it pretty much ends there). In practice, I expect variant drones to be relatively rare, given their cost.
I've noticed that with the ACTA design philosophy, it's very easy to caught into the trap of trying to avoid complexity, even at the expense of the game. I for one would like to thank you for avoiding that trap :)
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Myrm » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:45 am

firekite wrote:i would think that the plasma club will get some goodies (firing type "R" launchers as 5 type "F", carronade, pseudo's,bolting,etc..) before to long.
Carronade and Bolt are already present. Pseudos really have no place when seeker go A to B i a dice roll. Shotgun, IF it appears, will probably leap up in a supplment with Fighters
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Stu-- » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:43 am

I'm not saying the plasma races /need/ any new kit or rules.
Just that it's strange that the plasma hasn't been bumped up to fast too.

Having said that I've only played with plasma once so I'm no expert on whether its balanced.
Are there plasma users here who can comment?
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby billclo » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:57 am

Stu-- wrote:I'm not saying the plasma races /need/ any new kit or rules.
Just that it's strange that the plasma hasn't been bumped up to fast too.

Having said that I've only played with plasma once so I'm no expert on whether its balanced.
Are there plasma users here who can comment?
I've got 3-4 games with plasma under my belt. I do think things are starting to swing too far in favor of drones. You Gorns had better be fielding escorts, or you're going to get hosed. That or mixed forces of Feds and Gorns (which being as they are "allies" isn't hard to justify).

I'll try out the new drone rules and comment when I get some experience with them, but I'm skeptical at this point.
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby Captain Jonah » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:18 pm

billclo wrote:
Stu-- wrote:I'm not saying the plasma races /need/ any new kit or rules.
Just that it's strange that the plasma hasn't been bumped up to fast too.

Having said that I've only played with plasma once so I'm no expert on whether its balanced.
Are there plasma users here who can comment?
I've got 3-4 games with plasma under my belt. I do think things are starting to swing too far in favor of drones. You Gorns had better be fielding escorts, or you're going to get hosed. That or mixed forces of Feds and Gorns (which being as they are "allies" isn't hard to justify).

I'll try out the new drone rules and comment when I get some experience with them, but I'm skeptical at this point.
Speaking as a Gorn, erm Gorn player, I have one thing to say. Armoured Drones :roll:

Having finally got my escorts, YAY thanks Mathew, I now find them a lot less useful since I expect to now need two Phaser hits to stop each Drone from what was always a limited number of Phasers. To be honest I cannot see any serious Drone user NOT taking armoured Drones for at least part of his fleet, they are just too good.

Given that ADDs or Plasma Ds in ADD mode is not given a range for escorts that means two Plasma Ds can, maybe stop two Armoured Drones and then need to reload, Phasers can stop 2 or maybe 3 Armoured Drones. So my mighty escorts can maybe stop a single enemy ships 4AD salvo and then need to reload.

My feeling is that there are going to be big imbalances. Given the need to focus multiple Plasma ships to get Plasma through defensive Phaser fire the ability of a Drone enemy to either use up all my Phasers or to leak Drone hits though from even small squadron fire is going to be annoying.
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby McKinstry » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:27 pm

I thought the drone/plasma balance was fairly good as long as the two escort limit was in place.

That was before these new drones and an 18 drone Kzinti for under 300 points. Playtesting will be needed but at first glance, we're back to a drone problem. :(

Also, given the new drone friendly rules, clarity on using ADD and Plasma-D from a ship with the escort trait (or on IDF) now becomes more urgent as the two are inter-related.
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby billclo » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:31 pm

McKinstry wrote:I thought the drone/plasma balance was fairly good as long as the two escort limit was in place.

That was before these new drones and an 18 drone Kzinti for under 300 points. Playtesting will be needed but at first glance, we're back to a drone problem. :(

Also, given the new drone friendly rules, clarity on using ADD and Plasma-D from a ship with the escort trait (or on IDF) now becomes more urgent as the two are inter-related.
Yes, we have GOT to get a range for ADD/Combined drone racks to help Escorts perform their assigned role properly. It's gone from need soon to URGENT NEED.
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Re: Fleet Update #2 - Ready for Free Download

Postby mdauben » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:42 pm

billclo wrote:I've got 3-4 games with plasma under my belt. I do think things are starting to swing too far in favor of drones. You Gorns had better be fielding escorts, or you're going to get hosed. That or mixed forces of Feds and Gorns (which being as they are "allies" isn't hard to justify).
I have not had a chance to play the ACTASF plasma ships outside of some solo playtesting, and obviously I have not played the new FU2 stuff at all yet. I did have a lot of experience with Gorns and Romulans in SFB, though, and IMO as the "General War" progressed the "plasma races" became hopelessly outclassed by the "drone races" especially in multiship actions. I really hope they can get a handle on this in ACTASF so that Drones don't become the dominant weapons system in the game. :(
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