(Ahem) Rulebook Update

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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:27 pm

LimeyDragon wrote:How does junior from the Angel gang take advantage of the Punisher weapon skill?

Readign the above information you have to have 3 hits, but since Junior dual weilds and can at best on get 2 shots, how is he supposed to meet the 3 hit requirement.?
Doesn't Dual Pistol Master give him an extra dice with one gun? So 1 dice from one gun and two from the other?

Or am I reading it wrong?
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Winged_Human » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:08 pm

[quote="Greg Smith
Doesn't Dual Pistol Master give him an extra dice with one gun? So 1 dice from one gun and two from the other?

Or am I reading it wrong?[/quote]

How we are interpreting it is that the Shoot action uses one weapon, and since he is wielding two pistols the Dual Pistol Master gives him an extra die on the attack. I've not seen anywhere in the book that states when you make an attack you fire each weapon he is equipped with.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:22 pm

I couldn't figure out which way it worked. It makes sense reading the Dual Shooter talent, but then not so much with the Angel gang.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Winged_Human » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:30 pm

Yea, now you can see our confusion. I mean I'm sure Jr. is suppose to have Punisher, I just wish I knew a way to activate it.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:08 am

House rule that he has a zip gun, which is the same cost but gives 3D shooting.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby WereRogue » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:24 am

I'd be OK with the substitution of the Zip Gun, at least until a better ruling/clarification is provided from MGP.
LimeyDragon wrote: Dance of Death
Type: Weapon
Use: Passive
If the Hero removes an enemy as a casualty in close combat, he may make an immediate, bonus Melee action.


Ok, looking at the above weapon skill.. One can continue to make close combat attacks all day long provided you keep causing casualties. Is that right or should it read "you get 1 bonus attack period, all subsequent casualties do not count until till your next combat action."
It either needs to have a limit of some sort, or we need some clarification on whether a "Melee Action" includes a free move, or is limited to just an attack against models that are in base-to-base contact.

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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Winged_Human » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:20 pm

The Angel Gang:

According to the Rulebook Link Angel has the talent "Below the Belt", but one of the prerequisites for that Talent is "Dirty fighter" which he does not posess. Is he suppose to have this talent already?

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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:24 pm

Hi guys,

Just to let you know, going through all these right now. However, I can say that you can indeed carry on making Melee actions with a Dance of Death, multiple times - that is why it is a 'dance!'
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby WereRogue » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:27 am

msprange wrote:Hi guys,

Just to let you know, going through all these right now. However, I can say that you can indeed carry on making Melee actions with a Dance of Death, multiple times - that is why it is a 'dance!'
Yeah, but does a melee action include any sort of move? Otherwise, if I'm in a melee surrounded by opponents, it's better for me to have them fight me (as defender, I win on ties) vs. me fighting them via Dance of Death, follow?

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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:32 am

WereRogue wrote:
Yeah, but does a melee action include any sort of move?
-Ken
Yes it does:
Rulebook wrote:To perform a Melee action, a model must move into contact
with an enemy model
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby chaoschild » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:34 am

Also, the defender does not win ties in melee. The highest roller hits his opponent whether it's the attacker or the defender, on a tie nobody hits anybody (so a tie is actually a tie).
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:51 am

WereRogue wrote: Yeah, but does a melee action include any sort of move?
It does indeed!
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Da Boss » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:33 pm

If it matters the example stats for the Judges and the Brothers in the main rulebook have the old armour stats?

At present I am not sure if Aim and Accurate seem a bit out of whack?

Aim gives you +1 to hit, +1 damage and +1 Ap as well criticals on a 9+ - the text for this (and soem other talents) talks about reducing rate of fire but it actually has no game effect - so you can use full auto spit guns with this talent - and we do 8) .

Accurate however is only usable with 1 dice weapons and just gives a re-roll - which we have been assuming includes using lawgivers with single shot ammo? For that matter can you also choose to use less dice than you have - eg firing a spit gun as a single shot? (maybe not an option Citi-def are allowed to use?)
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:46 pm

Da Boss wrote: Aim gives you +1 to hit, +1 damage and +1 Ap as well criticals on a 9+ - the text for this (and soem other talents) talks about reducing rate of fire but it actually has no game effect .
Actually it does. Now, this is important...

Aim is an Activate (shoot) Talent. This means you have to perform a Special action (lining up on the target, or bracing the weapon in the case of the spit gun) _before_ you perform the Shoot action.

This effectively means you halve your firepower in a turn (you cannot take two Shoot actions) or greatly reduce your mobility (no Move action either).

You don't get it for nothing!
Da Boss wrote: Accurate however is only usable with 1 dice weapons and just gives a re-roll - which we have been assuming includes using lawgivers with single shot ammo? For that matter can you also choose to use less dice than you have - eg firing a spit gun as a single shot? (maybe not an option Citi-def are allowed to use?)
Now, by contrast, Accurate is an Action (shoot) Talent, meaning you only need the Shoot action, no Special required (all this is on page 50 of the rulebook). You can use it twice in a turn!

Yes, it includes single-shot ammo Lawgivers, no you cannot choose to roll less dice :)
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby chaoschild » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:50 pm

Da Boss wrote:the text for this (and soem other talents) talks about reducing rate of fire but it actually has no game effect - so you can use full auto spit guns with this talent - and we do 8) .
The reduction in rate of fire comes from the fact that it's an Activate(Shoot) talent so it requires 2 actions to take a shot rather than 1.
Da Boss wrote:Accurate however is only usable with 1 dice weapons and just gives a re-roll - which we have been assuming includes using lawgivers with single shot ammo?
Works with any shooting attack that uses 1 dice, so lawgivers and lawrods using anything besides standard execution rounds are fine. So are grenades for that matter.
Da Boss wrote:For that matter can you also choose to use less dice than you have - eg firing a spit gun as a single shot? (maybe not an option Citi-def are allowed to use?)
There's nothing in the rules to say that you have the option to roll fewer dice than you're entitled to (I thought of this one too and checked).

Edit: Matt beat me to it. :)
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Da Boss » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:50 pm

Thanks - looks I need to re read some bits :twisted: :oops:
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:53 pm

It does look like we have completely missed the Talents with Activate....

:oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby chaoschild » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:56 pm

If it helps, I did exactly the same for my first few games. :oops:
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update - Redux!

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:07 pm

Just to add to the above...

Got some bad news, and some good.

We received the latest hardcopy proof of the JD rulebook over the Christmas break - and they have made the same formatting mistakes as last time. We are endeavouring to set a fire under their seats over this and get it corrected quickly, but there is also an opportunity here...

Basically, this means we can have one more crack at tweaking/changing/adding anything to the main rulebook - but we need to do it in the next few days. Now, thus far, we have add/changed pretty much everything raised on this thread and elsewhere. To summarise though;

1. Intro scenario Armour stats corrected.
2. Laser Rifle reduced to 70 Credits.
3. Made obvious that missiles cost 10 Credits each.
4. Flyer text added (!).
5. Everything from Rulebook Changes and Additions in Block War is now in the core book (and no longer in Block War...).
6. Link Angel's Talents fixed.
7. Caligula is now Cal.
8. Stealth/Sneaky Does It terminology fixed.
9. Zombies easier to patch up after battles.
10. Robot armour cheaper (don't get too excited, you will still pay 50 Creds to get the Demolition Droid to +6 - and it should be fairly obvious as to why!).
11. Dance of Death may no longer be used by Flyers or from a vehicle.
12. Aim now requires Shoot +2, and no longer doubles damage.
13. Punisher now works if just two attacks hit.
14. Concussive Blast now works until end of victim's next phase.
15. Made it clear that you only pay for a Mercenary if the Mercenary survives (should make them a bit more popular in weaker forces!).
16. All Mercenary robots now work like Renegade Robots in terms of special rules.
17. Med and Tek Judges now have Lightweight armour option from Block War. Cheaper costs too.
18. Mutant now wearing leathers, stat corrected.
19. Riot Judge Talents fixed.

Over next couple of days, also looking at (does not mean these will actually get done, but they are on the short list for a gander);

A. Dual Lawgiver Street Judges.
B. Mean Angel on 4 1/2.
C. Zombies vs. Ramming vehicles problem.
D. Get Summon Psychic Entity to actually do something...
E. Add Bionic Eyes.
F. Make it clear that Cybernetics bought to fix injuries do not come out of model's equipment allowance (however, if you are upgrading good flesh, you are on your own!).
G. Check timing of Flamethrower effects (much like Concussive Blast).
H. Figure out how many Fatties should fit in a ground car...

Now, if you think I have missed anything, now is the time!

One last thing to consider - the Campaign Rules.

I don't want to make any fundamental changes here (like adding turf/territory - that is something better served in a supplement/expansion), but I do want to know if anything needs 'tweaking.'

At the moment, both sides get 40% of the Credit value of the largest force. However, concerns have been raised is that this does not stop smaller forces getting wiped out. My thinking is that there are the following counterbalances to this;

1. If you only pay for surviving mercs, chances are few will need paying at the end of a battle...
2. You get 'dead' Minions back 70% of the time. 90% of the time if they fail a WtF check.
3. You can now voluntarily fail WtF checks.
4. If you get hammered by a force much larger than yourself, you may well end up with more credits than you started...

The whole 'point' of the campaign is to concentrate on your Heroes, building them up, earning XP, gaining Talents and 'reparing' them if they get hurt. You should not be giving a stuff about your Minions or Mercenaries, as they are easily replaced, and very cheaply at that. They are both mechanisms by which you keep your Heroes alive.

Now, given that, should rewards for campaign play be changed?
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Da Boss » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:12 pm

Very cool :)

Is there any chance of a summary chart of the of all the weapons, armour and equipment at the back to help with generating gangs etc?

Should Giant also be immune to Obey Cal's Arrest rule?

:)
Last edited by Da Boss on Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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