(Ahem) Rulebook Update

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(Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:17 pm

You know when I said the rulebook was 'finished' and done?

Well, I have picked up the Games Designer's disease, and just cannot resist one last tweak of a few things :)

There have been a couple of points raised on these forums recently, and there are a few things I want to look at (Talents could use some cleaning up, some weapon/equipment costs could use a look, never been happy with the costs of missiles and their launchers...). I am straining to stop myself converting the whole thing to a d6 system :)

So, one last update. Will be the last. I promise.

Take this opportunity, and let me know if there is anything, big or small, you would like to alter. Anything and everything considered!
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Butcher's Boy » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:58 pm

ok some bits an bobs to consider

1 - some guidance on what equipment different forces can have,

for example Justcice department - can they take non justice department weapons?

My personal take would be no, with the exception of Cybernetics & med kits.

2 - it would be cool if we could buy extra armour for justice department forces as they advance for example being able to upgrade to holocaust armour would be amazeballs) rather than only being able to use the models occassionally as mercs - i can see why though as they woulddnt be on patrol like the rest of the force

3 - tek judges should get some kind of repair skill as at the moment they are less good versions of street judges (not even a daystick)

4 - the Orangutan boss needs some special rules as that model is brilliant :)

5 - D6 is maybe easier but D10 makes it unique - D6 would make it very similar to playing Necromunda with Dredd minis - just my opinion though
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby cheetor » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:31 pm

Please do not convert to D6!
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:08 pm

cheetor wrote:Please do not convert to D6!
I won't :)
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Butcher's Boy » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:50 pm

thats a relief :)
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Surtur » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:44 pm

I know I'm new to the game and rules, but these kinda stuck out to me:

Clearing up which models get which Lawgiver or if the choice is available.

Making clear the Mk1 Lawgiver ammunition type selection process.

Perhaps allowing models to dig other models out of riot foam in some way so you cannot just one shot a really expensive model or hero.

Clarifying what lvl hero judges are (I assume 1) and if they get the benefits of that lvl applied.

Campaign rules could encourage bullying weaker forces, forcing them to play unfavorable scenarios for high rewards they have low chances of winning.

Quick reference/cheat sheet of talents, psi powers and weapons.

A blank force sheet to fill out with names, stats, injuries, gear etc.

Under Riot judge's gear on pg 25 and the merc version on pg 74 he is listed as having standard issue armor, when he has the armor save of riot armor.

That's all I can think of right now.

Edited my mistake with a new query that popped up after it.
Last edited by Surtur on Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby cfirpi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:29 pm

The ectoplasmic and concussive series of psi talents are still on the old system with a need for will +7 or even +12 :shock:

Laser rifle is the same cost as a heavy spit gun and laser cannon. Just doesnt seem right. maybe raise cannon to 90 points or so. I dont know on this one.


Should a mercenary lvl 3 riot judge really cost 200cred instead of 250?

Also make it so that the page numbers are still visible when you remove the background layer.

Those are my little nitpicks.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:53 pm

I've just made up a starter Psi judge and two obvious talents are: Daze and Mental Sting. Both have the same range and are exactly the same cost. One causes a hit (essentially taking a minion out) the other causes him to lose an action. Why take Daze? Surely mental sting should be more difficult?
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:58 pm

I'm glad the rulebook was finished when I printed out the rules so I could run a game... :x
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Greg Smith » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:30 pm

Surtur wrote:
Clarifying what lvl hero judges are (I assume 1) and if they get the benefits of that lvl applied.
Street Judges in Cal's retinue have their talents defined. But normal Street Judges don't. This seems odd.


Quick reference/cheat sheet of talents, psi powers and weapons.

A blank force sheet to fill out with names, stats, injuries, gear etc.
I concur.

Several items refer to Flyer. There are no rules for this though.

I've also seen a couple of 'see page XX'.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Surtur » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Greg Smith wrote:
Surtur wrote:
Clarifying what lvl hero judges are (I assume 1) and if they get the benefits of that lvl applied.
Street Judges in Cal's retinue have their talents defined. But normal Street Judges don't. This seems odd.
The street judges yes, but then the SJS ones do not. Rather irregular.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Surtur » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:41 am

Suggestion: Riot shields having +1 armor against ranged attacks and a feat like Shield Wall or some similar name to allow for being in base to base with another model with a riot shield and feat doubling their armor bonuses from shield and granting another parry roll and/or even negating gang up bonuses from enemy models. Using the feat could require a special action each turn from each participating model. Maybe a feat to let models with riot shields perform bash attacks that may not necessarily do damage, but hinder enemy melee skill or reduce actions next turn?

It's a lot to put in and would require a points bump, but it would make riot shields more dynamic.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:17 am

Great suggestions guys, I have set aside Saturday (the local club is running an Apocalypse game down here!) to work on both the rulebook and Block War, so please keep suggestions and observations coming!
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby cfirpi » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:46 am

How about making some feats neutral, so aim can be any ranged weapon instead of just rifles. Then armor cracker for rifles and placed shot for pistols, rapid fire for rifles and fan the hammer for pistols etc.

Ill look the list over and give more names later, something to do during class.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Surtur » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:20 pm

For sake of book keeping for msprange, posting my other relevant posts here:
I don't know if this is intentional or a typo but I thought it odd. Maybe it's just a balancing thing, I don't know. But on pg 11 of the core rulebook in the quick start, the lawgiver has 3D as it's shooting score, but on the equipment page 21, it's listed as only 2D. In the new expansion both versions of lawgiver standard execution rounds are 3D shots as well. Is this working as intended or someone miss the 3 key?

PS there's a typo under riot shield "wused" on page 23
I would like to see those rules for riots and the like. The idea of judges having to corral around mobs of citizens sounds like a fun scenario in and of itself. On that note:

-Model(s) of a mob. Think like 50mm base with 4-5 citizens armed with clubs, broken bottles or what have you. Maybe an old guy with a pitchfork (where he got it in Mega City 1, nobody knows). I believe that a unique sort of model and rules for mobs would give a better immersion towards the idea that Judges/gangs aren't just fighting a new set of gang members.

-Increased rules for riot shields. I posted this in the current rules suggestion thread, I won't copy paste unless needed.

-Scenarios for mobs:
~I Love a Parade: In the mobs, there contains a single or multiple target(s) for the gang or judges to take out or arrest. Maybe he's an informant. Judges or opposing gang wants to protect him. Rolled for randomly when a mob takes a hit or is destroyed to see if he got taken out.
~Break on Through: A mob is cutting off judges or gang member's objective.
~Rock and a Hard Place: The gang or judges are trying to flee through the mob to escape from pursuit and have to exit on the opposite board edge from where they start.
~Distraction: Mobs are running amok. Several objectives are scattered through out the playing field. Try to avoid or detain (or kill) the mobs while collecting objectives and getting them to your board edge to escape with.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby cfirpi » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:47 pm

Well for Talents I would say
Accurate
Crippling shot
Defensive fire
Critical Shot
Rapid Fire
These can easily be made neuitral by just making the character have to specify the type. (eg, Accurate (pistol), Defensive Fire (rifle) So at the end iof the above skills just a add (pistol/ rifle)
Then you can also throw in a Master Pistoleer which is the same as Master Rifleman but of course, with pistols.
Pistol Whip can be changed to Close Qaurter Combat and can now be used with pistol or rifle.

Also should we maybe raise the limit on stats(pg48) to four higher than starting. As it stands there are a few skills that require some stat at +4.
There are 26 units (not counting angel gang) only 10 of those units can reach a shoot +4. The stinky part is that 5 of them are judges and 1 is a minion (which cant normally take talents anyways.)

Ther is also still the idea of robots/zombies auto passing will saves which completly blows thorugh
stealth and some others (the mall scenario etc). Could we get a number next to the - in parenthesis with the stat modifier for things such as searching. So
Zombie: -(+0)
Junkbot: -(-1)
Combat Droid: -(+2)
This shows the difference in sensors or life detection ability, etc.

Another skill fleshed out that was brought up here.
Master Sheild bearer:
req: Riot Shield Defense Melee +4
The Judge has learned to make maximum use of his shield in all situations. When out numbered the enemies do not recieve Gang up bnonuses against him. Also when he is not out numbered by his enemies in close combat he recieves an extra Melee Die as he wields his shield as another weapon.

I know I throw alot of stuff out there a quite often, If i'm overstepping or you would prefer all these in an email, please let me know.
Or if there is an are you need a focus on let me know, Ill give it this kind of attention.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:11 pm

cfirpi wrote: If i'm overstepping
Quite impossible to overstep with this game - we have always treated Judge Dredd aas a gamer's game. All ideas and comments always welcomed!
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby Surtur » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:21 pm

As LimeyDragon suggested, some sort of running away mechanic would be nice for campaign play. He suggested starting at 75% of your army left which I liked the idea of, but here is my take on it:


If at the beginning of your turn you have 75% or less models remaining, you may declare a retreat. All of your models may only make move actions or flee actions if locked in close combat. Any model that is still within the movement characteristic range of any opposing model at the end of your turn counts as a casualty as they get chased down. The rest escape safely.

This could also open up the possibility of certain characters or feats that do not allow you to run away as a draw back, or even automatically fail to run.
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:31 am

Voluntary retreats will indeed be going in - though it will cause a bit of a problem for East Meg Invasion Forces whose officers do not like their judges retreating :)
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Re: (Ahem) Rulebook Update

Postby MongooseMatt » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:54 pm

Okay, just about finished my 'twiddle!' The rulebook is being updated now, but it will probably be a day or two before it is ready, as there is one section that requires a fair bit of graphical work and layout. However, a summary of what is coming;

1. Voluntary retreats are in - however, I have put one little restriction on them so you cannot simply do them at any time (that is just no fun).

2. Missile Launchers are now both affordable and worthwhile (had been bugging me for a while).

3. Just about all Armour has gone up by one point. Also, Cover now improves Agility and Armour by one point better as well. This is basically to make models a little more survivable (especially Minions with no armour), and to protect your Hero investment. Should not increase the length of games by too much. Use Cover!

4. Justice Departtment can no longer 'buy' equipment beyond their regular options and cybernetics.

5. Talents have changed. This is the big one. Basically, most of your old favourites are there (though some have been renamed to make them more 'Mega-City One'). What has changed are the way they are grouped and how they are selected.

Basically, every Talent is now in a 'tree' (such as, say Gunslinger or Pre-Cog). You can only select Talents if you have all the other Talents in that tree beforehand - and that is about the only prerequisite needed (there are a few that still need certain characteristic scores, but these have been toned down), allowing you to build your Hero pretty much as you like.

On top of that, we are building a 'Talent Tree Listing' that basically is a graphical representation of all the Talents, and how they fit in their trees.

Simples!

Block War has also been updated, and I am hoping to get that up today - the East Meg Invasion Force is in, along with all their weapons and equipment, Judge DeMarco is in as a Justice Department 'Mercenary' and forces can now run around with Flamethrowers!
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