(ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Borak

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(ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Borak

Postby Nerroth » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:26 am

Image

In the history of the Alpha Octant, not every warp-capable species managed to stake a claim for itself on the galactic stage.

On the one hand, you have the "has-beens"; the Carnivons (a wolf-like species genetically related to the Lyrans and Kzintis; and who hate, and are hated in turn by, both) and Paravians (a bird-like species who evolved from a population of Gorns who had once been seeded on their home world; you can see one of their ships in these pics). The Paravians fell afoul of a Sun Snake in the Early Years, which drove their home sun nova and wiped them out as a species in the Alpha Octant; though they would later become a major player on the other side of the Alpha/Omega Void. The Carnivons, in turn, were (supposedly) slaughtered to the last pup by their feline relatives; though rumours abound of a "last command", a lonely exodus fleet sailing into the unknown in search of a new home.

On the other hand, you have the "never-weres"; the Peladine and Borak. The Peladine (actually two species; the raccoon-like Ranel and dolphin-like Phelen) were slow to expand into space; too slow, as they were caught unprepared at their home planet and forcibly incorporated into the Lyran Far Stars Duchy. The Borak (who look something like this; while their ships look like this) emerged in what would become the Hydran Old Colonies. During the first occupation of "on-map" Hydran space by the Klingons and Lyrans, the surviving Hydran forces in the Old Colonies "dealt with" the Borak; allowing them to operate civilian ships, but not warships.

Of course, none of the above stopped generations of academy instructors from designing "what-if" ships for these forgotten empires; and even sets of alternate maps to show how things might have been on a strategic level.

In SFB terms, the Borak and Peladine are in playtest modules E3 (the SSDs for which are listed separately on e23) and E4 respectively; while counters for those two "what-if" empires, along with ones to support an upcoming set of SSDs for General War-era Carnivons and Paravians, will be printed for SFB Module C6. (If you have any comments or suggestions as to how the pups or chickens should work in the Main Era setting, feel free to pop over to the C6 development corner of the ADB BBS.)


And of course, once C6 is published, the ideas it will offer could perhaps be up for consideration for other games systems; such as Federation Commander, Starmada, and A Call to Arms: Star Fleet...


In the meantime, here is one glimpse at things to come which may upset fans of the Gorns; Mapsheet P of a "what-if" take on the Federation and Empire map.
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby dix » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:44 am

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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Zarathustra Suicune » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:29 am

That does look interesting, I was actually trying to write up an idea for a canine/lupine race that had joined the federation, with the idea that they would also be opposite to the Kzinti and Lyrans in that whilst the two feline races are more aggressive, they as a whole tended to focus more on philosophy and the arts then anything else, with a sort of eastern theme.
Not entirely sure what to do now, what is the general opinion on people creating new races that are either subservient to other empires or part of the federation?
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Nerroth » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:43 pm

Zarathustra Suicune wrote:That does look interesting, I was actually trying to write up an idea for a canine/lupine race that had joined the federation, with the idea that they would also be opposite to the Kzinti and Lyrans in that whilst the two feline races are more aggressive, they as a whole tended to focus more on philosophy and the arts then anything else, with a sort of eastern theme.
There is a felinoid species known as the Bis'en, who were first introduced in Prime Directive Federation; they have more of a write-up in Captain's Log #45, but my copy hasn't arrived in the post just yet.

The Bis'en (who may or may not be genetically related to the Korlivilar in ISC space) are an independent species on friendly terms with the Federation; while they would be welcome to join if they so wished, they prefer to retain their political independence. However, there are Bis'en diplomats at the Federation Council, and Bis'en exchange officers on the odd Star Fleet vessel.

Plus, from what I gather, they import the ships for their planetary navy from the Federation; though I'm not sure if this is confirmed or not in that CL45 article.

As for other cat/dog species, the aforementioned Korlivilar are one of the five founding members of the Inter-Stellar Concordium; they had their own pre-ISC planetary fleet in the Early Years, but now serve alongside their fellow members of the Concordium in the unified Navy and Police forces.
Although, there is not a lot of RPG data just yet on what kind of society can be found on Korlivala; perhaps it could be diverse enough to include room for a more contemplative sub-set of the populace in a particular city (or planetary region).

Outside of Alpha, the wolf-like Vulpa and tiger-like Rynish are both to be found over in the Omega Octant; though both are quite militant (the Vulpa keen empire builders; the Ryn isolationists). Also, the inhabitants of Omega's Nucian Cluster are ethnically Vulpa, but culturally distinct from the "regular" members of their species; while the "home" Vulpa are more politically unified, the Nucians are divided into a myriad of mutually-antagonistic Clans. You can see what a Vulpa looks like in this pic; shown alongside their (one-time) partners in the multi-species Mæsron Alliance.


Not entirely sure what to do now, what is the general opinion on people creating new races that are either subservient to other empires or part of the federation?
From an RPG perspective, I imagine there would still be scope for new member (or non-member) species in Federation space; but they wouldn't be the kind to show up on this level (other than saying that this or that Marine squad happened to have one or two of such-and-such a species as part of it).

You'd probably have more traction if you looked more to the Prime Directive sort of things; especially once the Mongoose Traveller edition is done and dusted. (Though it would be wise to check out the Federation sourcebook, just to be clear on what bases have been covered already.)

But if you mean a species that would actually have new ships, you'd probably have to go outside of the Alpha Octant for that kind of thing. (There is still plenty of room in places like Omega and the LMC for new species; both ones with their own fleets, and those who are member/subject planets of currently-published empires.)
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Zarathustra Suicune » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:35 pm

I am thinking of trying to write fluff for each of my ships and their captains, so that's why, also I am trying to get though writers block and so I am hoping trying to write different things will clear it, so was thinking of writing this race's history to fit in with the background of one of the captains :P Has there ever been a complete list of federation members?
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Nerroth » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:04 pm

I would imagine there may never be a complete list of members; if only to leave enough room for new ideas further down the line.

The best port of call for UFP background info is Prime Directive Federation; in either GURPS or D20M flavours. I would imagine that a Traveller edition of the Federation sourcebook will be on the cards at some point, if you wanted to hold out until then.
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Zarathustra Suicune » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:37 pm

I'd rather wait, though what is the difference between them?
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Nerroth » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:46 pm

Backgound-wise, nothing; one has its stats geared up to support GURPS 4th Edition, the other D20 Modern. (The only difference between the GURPS and D20M product lines is in the different editions of the Prime DIrective core book; the GURPS version includes a few species, like the five founding ISC members, which aren't in the D20M edition.)


-----


So far as the "Forgotten Empires" go, each of them has their their own set of tactical options to consider.

The (playtest) Peladine ships are armed with both drones and plasma torpedoes; but have no direct-fire heavy weapons of their own (short of plasma bolts).

The Borak, in contrast, are almost exclusively phaser-armed; even their heavy weapons (mega-phasers and phaser cannons) are phaser derivatives, though they do also have Hunter-Killers (remote-controlled suicide fighters).

The Carnivons won't have (simulator) Main Era ships in print until C6 is published; but their Early Years fleet had the disruptor cannon (a heavier disruptor shot which arms over two turns) and death bolt (a double-size drone-like missile that is fired out of a shuttle bay).

The Paravians have the quantum wave torpedo; a plasma-esque weapon that can fire every turn, and has a limited "splash" effect not entirely unlike that of a PPD. They used to have a direct-fire quantum cannon in the warp-refit era, but probably won't get that weapon back again.

Of the four, the Peladine are the only ones who don't need any new rules; the Borak have their funky phasers to consider, plus we'll have to see what the "General War" versions of Carnivon and Paravian technology will look like.
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Nerroth » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:45 pm

SFB Module C6 looks like it won't be out until Origins, but there is some Paravian ship art surfacing over on ADB's Facebook page.

(Although, the Early Heavy Cruiser would not be in C6, since the "real" version was already in SFB Module Y1.)

EDIT: Looks good here, too.
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Nerroth » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:16 pm

SVC just posted this over on the BBS:

Image

Does anyone think either ship type might look good in Starline 2500 form one day?
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Zarathustra Suicune » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:23 pm

The bottom ones could, not sure about the top ones.
What may be a cool idea in the case of those races who lost their independence and were not wiped out is the possibility of seeing some of their ships in either the orion lists, or in the lists of the empire who conquered them as auxileries?
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Re: (ACtA:SF) The Forgotten Empires

Postby Nerroth » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:33 pm

Depending on what their Omega Octant counterparts end up looking like, minis for the C6 Paravians might be able to "double-dip" for use in that region of the galaxy, similar to how the Fed CL can be re-used as an Auroran CL. But then, it's still too soon to tell what the Omega-Paravian ship designs might turn out as. For all we know, their hulls may look totally different to what we see in this example.

Similarly, there are rumours that a "last command" of Carnivon exiles made it as far as the distant Sargasso Storm octant; but even if that did happen, there's no guarantee that any of their ships might look the same, either.


But so long as a set of rules governing the C6 Paravians and Carnivons in ACtA:SF was balanced enough, perhaps they could each be viable entrants anyway, regardless of whether or no they would count as simulator opponents (or alternate-universe adversaries) historically.
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Captain Jonah » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:16 pm

You have received a new private message from "Nerroth" to your account on
"Mongoose Publishing" with the following subject:

An old fiend...


Wait a minute. What. :?


I thought we wiped out that lot years ago. They have survivors :shock:

Damn. Summon the war fleet, arm Plasmas. Contact the supply depot and get in a good stock of Tribbles for snacks. We have some budgies to hunt :twisted:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Nerroth » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:19 pm

That's the spirit! (Given the layout of Mapsheet P, a ISC loyalist might want to watch out for the C6 Paravians, too.)

I wonder if any Kyran or Kzinti afficionados are similarly keen to take on their old Carnivon neighbours...
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby bluebirds40 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:18 am

cool cover, cool ships they would look good as 2500 minis.
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Zarathustra Suicune » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:51 am

Hmm.. I do like the idea of the last command, there is a fair few storylines you can do with it, either voyager wormhole esc, or they try and escape, then return and get incorporated by non kitty empires...
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Captain Jonah » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:59 pm

Nerroth wrote:That's the spirit! (Given the layout of Mapsheet P, a ISC loyalist might want to watch out for the C6 Paravians, too.)

I wonder if any Kyran or Kzinti afficionados are similarly keen to take on their old Carnivon neighbours...
Ok so the Gorns have a BORDER with the Paravians. An EIGHT hex long border. How exactly did the Gorn think these guys were extinct when they are two hexes away with ships and stations. Exactly how did we miss this one :shock:

Come on ADB. Its not like they are that far away, are all the Gorn scouts blind ?

How exactly have they built an empire the same size as the Gorn confederation without us noticing?
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Nerroth » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:
Nerroth wrote:That's the spirit! (Given the layout of Mapsheet P, a ISC loyalist might want to watch out for the C6 Paravians, too.)

I wonder if any Kyran or Kzinti afficionados are similarly keen to take on their old Carnivon neighbours...
Ok so the Gorns have a BORDER with the Paravians. An EIGHT hex long border. How exactly did the Gorn think these guys were extinct when they are two hexes away with ships and stations. Exactly how did we miss this one :shock:

Come on ADB. Its not like they are that far away, are all the Gorn scouts blind ?

How exactly have they built an empire the same size as the Gorn confederation without us noticing?
Mapsheet P is a look at an alternate (conjectural?) timeline, in which the Paravians were not wiped out in the Alpha Octant.

There will be another new map panel (mapsheet C, perhaps?) showing a "what-if" look at a modern-era Carnivon realm, as it might have stood over on the western side of the Alpha Octant. (That map is taking longer to finish, since it needs to expand into certain "off-map" areas beyond the coreward and anti-spinward edge of the current Federation and Empire map.)

I don't know if both new map sheets are meant to show the same alternate universe, or two separate ones.


But in any case, the Paravians that managed to escape to Omega can be seen on the five currently-published Omega maps (Which span from Y100 to Y210), as shown in this compilation pdf.

As you can see, they stay small for quite some time, but then really start to get busy...
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Nerroth » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:15 pm

We're finally getting close to the release of SFB Module C6; a new preview shows a glimpse of both the front and back covers.

I've been spending a fair bit of time with reading BattleTech books as of late, and I found it interesting that in this case, the "wolves" are the ones who have green counters, and the "birds" the ones in red. I am sure some in that other universe would prefer it was the other way around, quiaff?

On another note, this may not be the last time the Paravians are offered alongside a wolf-like species in SFB terms. One of the proposed "new empire" modules for Omega would offer those Paravians alongside the Vulpa and Nucians (who themselves are ethnically Vulpa).
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Re: (ACtA:SF) Lost Empires: Paravian, Carnivon, Peladine, Bo

Postby Nerroth » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:46 pm

SFB Module C6's formal publication is imminent, and SVC just posted this Carnivon map preview over on the ADB BBS.

(The top map refers to a timeline where the Carnivons survived in their corner of space through to the start of the General War. The bottom map shows what might have happened had some of their forces made it to the WYN Cluster, and used it as a launchpad for a later round of conquest.)

Also, there are sketches done by Adam Turner which show his visions of what a Carnivon and a Paravian would look like. (Adam also sketched his take on a Gorn, and made a welcome point to include traces of the genetic link between that species and their Paravian cousins/nemeses.)
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