Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

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Pavlov Grenadier
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Pavlov Grenadier » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:27 pm

sanguisaevum wrote:
Da Boss wrote:scenario restrictions

not having another 30pts left over?

:)
<chuckle>. kinda what i thought... "because you have to"... is probably the only good reason then...
Hi San! Yeah, our group feels the Kzinti FF is overpriced and/or underpowered. Depending on the point limit, I usually try to downgrade a bigger ship so I can upgrade the FF to either a CL or DW (DW being my personal fav for the 150pts range).

Dont get me wrong, the FF is still nice due to its 4 drones but everything else on it seems a bit of a let down. I havnt given up on it yet and maybe in bigger games it might be a nice Int Sink or something able to take a table quarter and hurl drones with little danger...only time will tell.
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby sanguisaevum » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:34 pm

So how is the identity lost?

How much the change reduce drones in Kzinzi fleets?

Did I miss change where kzinzi ships suddenly have 3AD of drones rather than 4?

2AD?

Can't say I see any reduction in amount of drone's kzinti's are launching. Maybe you could point the blind me change that reduces amount of drone's kzintis will be firing?
Are you serious? :shock:

Read back through my numerous posts and show me where i express concern that the Kzinti will be launching LESS drones overall... oh dear lord... i give up!

My issue was that Kzinti might be reduced to using Drones as a SUPPORT weapon, and not a PRIMARY weapon, because they would be unable to focus fire effectivly. Their identity is that of a race that uses drones to deal damage, not to tie up enemy resources like other drone users. It was that Identity i was concerned about.

I have since accepted this is probably not the case. As 12ad of drones per target is still more than enough to threaten. Therefore, my concerns were without merit.

People REALLY need to READ AND COMPREHEND before they post ststements with no relevance whatsoever to the point in question.

Thankyou to those who at least tried to comprehend my point, and explained how i was wrong to be concerned.

Hi San! Yeah, our group feels the Kzinti FF is overpriced and/or underpowered. Depending on the point limit, I usually try to downgrade a bigger ship so I can upgrade the FF to either a CL or DW (DW being my personal fav for the 150pts range).

Dont get me wrong, the FF is still nice due to its 4 drones but everything else on it seems a bit of a let down. I havnt given up on it yet and maybe in bigger games it might be a nice Int Sink or something able to take a table corner and hurl drones with little danger...only time will tell.
That pretty much mirrors my thoughts, thanks for that, Fella.
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:35 pm

tneva82 wrote: So how is the identity lost?

How much the change reduce drones in Kzinzi fleets?

Did I miss change where kzinzi ships suddenly have 3AD of drones rather than 4?

2AD?

Can't say I see any reduction in amount of drone's kzinti's are launching. Maybe you could point the blind me change that reduces amount of drone's kzintis will be firing?
I think Sanguisaevum might be weeping at this point :) He has said quite explicitly that he agrees with you and that no identity has been lost!
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby sanguisaevum » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:43 pm

msprange wrote:
tneva82 wrote: So how is the identity lost?

How much the change reduce drones in Kzinzi fleets?

Did I miss change where kzinzi ships suddenly have 3AD of drones rather than 4?

2AD?

Can't say I see any reduction in amount of drone's kzinti's are launching. Maybe you could point the blind me change that reduces amount of drone's kzintis will be firing?
I think Sanguisaevum might be weeping at this point :) He has said quite explicitly that he agrees with you and that no identity has been lost!
Oh dear lord, save me Matt... save me!

:lol:
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby adm » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:41 pm

Some comments on the Kzinti FF vs. DW. The difference between to two ships is based on SFU history. To use the tired WW II analogy again :wink: , the FF is an American four pipper DD, and the DW is a Fletcher. You took the FF because the DW was not here yet, this an issue that ACTA lacks, so take all the DWs you want. :lol:




By the way, I think you guys will like the Kizinti Drone Frigate (DF)variant once it gets ported over, it has six drone racks, for the loss of 1 marine and a roughly 18% increase in cost. :twisted:
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Pavlov Grenadier » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:59 pm

adm wrote:Some comments on the Kzinti FF vs. DW. The difference between to two ships is based on SFU history. To use the tired WW II analogy again :wink: , the FF is an American four pipper DD, and the DW is a Fletcher. You took the FF because the DW was not here yet, this an issue that ACTA lacks, so take all the DWs you want. :lol:




By the way, I think you guys will like the Kizinti Drone Frigate (DF)variant once it gets ported over, it has six drone racks, for the loss of 1 marine and a roughly 18% increase in cost. :twisted:
More droneses...my precious...
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Da Boss » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:10 pm

adm wrote:Some comments on the Kzinti FF vs. DW. The difference between to two ships is based on SFU history. To use the tired WW II analogy again :wink: , the FF is an American four pipper DD, and the DW is a Fletcher. You took the FF because the DW was not here yet, this an issue that ACTA lacks, so take all the DWs you want. :lol:
yeah, pity there was not room for the ISD/YIS dates - been a nice thing to have to help player and tournament organisers generate scenarios etc
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:00 pm

Da Boss wrote: yeah, pity there was not room for the ISD/YIS dates - been a nice thing to have to help player and tournament organisers generate scenarios etc
To be fair, we had them in B5, and people rarely used them...
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby McKinstry » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:49 pm

adm wrote:Some comments on the Kzinti FF vs. DW. The difference between to two ships is based on SFU history. To use the tired WW II analogy again :wink: , the FF is an American four pipper DD, and the DW is a Fletcher. You took the FF because the DW was not here yet, this an issue that ACTA lacks, so take all the DWs you want. :lol:




By the way, I think you guys will like the Kizinti Drone Frigate (DF)variant once it gets ported over, it has six drone racks, for the loss of 1 marine and a roughly 18% increase in cost. :twisted:
Feel free to port it over anytime after 2022.
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby tneva82 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:52 pm

sanguisaevum wrote:Are you serious? :shock:

Read back through my numerous posts and show me where i express concern that the Kzinti will be launching LESS drones overall... oh dear lord... i give up!

My issue was that Kzinti might be reduced to using Drones as a SUPPORT weapon, and not a PRIMARY weapon, because they would be unable to focus fire effectivly. Their identity is that of a race that uses drones to deal damage, not to tie up enemy resources like other drone users. It was that Identity i was concerned about.
You want kzintsi's to be the drone fleet. Well duh even with the change they ARE. Nothing short of the orion one ship spam or fed DWD spam can match the amount of drone's kzintsi's toss out. Change or not.

When you bring Kzintsi's to field whether change happens or not what will come to mind? Answer: Drones. They are still tossing same amount of drone's as before.

Pretty ridiculous to claim that feel of "we use drones" is dependant on ability to load up everything on single ship. Pretty shallow feel for fleet if that's all there is to it...
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:56 pm

tneva82 wrote: You want kzintsi's to be the drone fleet. Well duh even with the change they ARE. Nothing short of the orion one ship spam or fed DWD spam can match the amount of drone's kzintsi's toss out. Change or not.
And now I am crying for Sanguisaevum :)
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby sanguisaevum » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:24 pm

tneva82 wrote:
You want kzintsi's to be the drone fleet. Well duh even with the change they ARE. Nothing short of the orion one ship spam or fed DWD spam can match the amount of drone's kzintsi's toss out. Change or not.

When you bring Kzintsi's to field whether change happens or not what will come to mind? Answer: Drones. They are still tossing same amount of drone's as before.

Pretty ridiculous to claim that feel of "we use drones" is dependant on ability to load up everything on single ship. Pretty shallow feel for fleet if that's all there is to it...
Reading comprehension is your friend. Invest in learning some please.

There is nothing more i can say on the matter.

Matt... shoot me now please. With drones!

/done
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Captain Jonah » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:40 pm

sanguisaevum wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
You want kzintsi's to be the drone fleet. Well duh even with the change they ARE. Nothing short of the orion one ship spam or fed DWD spam can match the amount of drone's kzintsi's toss out. Change or not.

When you bring Kzintsi's to field whether change happens or not what will come to mind? Answer: Drones. They are still tossing same amount of drone's as before.

Pretty ridiculous to claim that feel of "we use drones" is dependant on ability to load up everything on single ship. Pretty shallow feel for fleet if that's all there is to it...
Reading comprehension is your friend. Invest in learning some please.

There is nothing more i can say on the matter.

Matt... shoot me now please. With drones!

/done

He would probably miss :wink:
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Rerednaw » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:06 pm

I have used Kzinti a few times.
vs. feds (he fielded OWDs).
vs. Roms (cloaked most of the game).
vs. Klingons (ADD and drones of their own.)

Not terribly effective each game (the Klingons didn't lose their ADD until turn 6). But I think they are okay. And seeking with range 36 is amazing.
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby tneva82 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:45 am

sanguisaevum wrote:
Reading comprehension is your friend. Invest in learning some please.

There is nothing more i can say on the matter.

Matt... shoot me now please. With drones!

/done
Well. When somebody whines just the way power hungry "give me biggest guns and don't you dare to balance it" then it's that case 100% times.

Yeah you say you aren't doing that but then again criminals always say "not guilty" unless it's bloody blindingly obvious they did and they are angle shooting for reduced penalty instead.

You blew your cover. Fleet identity. HAH! It was never in danger of losing in this change. All your whine amounted to "boo my fleet might get actually balanced rather than remaining broken. Bad Mongoose! I want to be able to win games without any effort! Don't you dare to change it!"
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Da Boss » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:42 am

msprange wrote:
Da Boss wrote: yeah, pity there was not room for the ISD/YIS dates - been a nice thing to have to help player and tournament organisers generate scenarios etc
To be fair, we had them in B5, and people rarely used them...
we used them quite a bit for themed tournaments and games but also it hardly took up any room in the ship stats
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby sanguisaevum » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:43 am

tneva82 wrote: You blew your cover. Fleet identity. HAH! It was never in danger of losing in this change. All your whine amounted to "boo my fleet might get actually balanced rather than remaining broken. Bad Mongoose! I want to be able to win games without any effort! Don't you dare to change it!"
OK,

I don't normally do this after bowing out of a thread, but seriously, WTF are you talking about?

You have absolutely no grasp on what my argument was at all, and have instead, made up your own mind about what I was trying to say without comprehending my points even in the slightest. That is so far away from my arguments on this subject that it's comical.

There was absolutely no requirement for you to post this statement.

Your either, trolling, in which case, grow up. Or your still trying to argue against a point i never even made, in which case, feel free to continue arguing against your own interpretation of what you think i was saying.

Either way, post (and you) reported.

Unbelievable.

Really am done now.
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby Iron Domokun » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:48 am

Sanguisaevum wrote:
My issue was that Kzinti might be reduced to using Drones as a SUPPORT weapon, and not a PRIMARY weapon
The fact that the Kzintis are using drones as a primary weapon and not as just a support weapon is the biggest indicator that they are broken. The primary weapon for the Kzintis is the disruptor, same as the Klingons, Lyrans, and WYN Cluster. They get drones to compensate for their fairly ordinary turn rates. The idea being that they throw out lots of little toys to distract the enemy while killing him. Yes, I know "ACTA isn't SFB" and all that. I do believe that this is a strong indication that drones are excessively powerful in ACTA vs other ACTA ships, and need to be toned down somehow.
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby AdmiralGrafSpee » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:46 pm

I played a game Friday night - Feds vs Romulans. Gotta say with the new max 3 ships targetting another ship rule - it really feels like a big waste of time even launching the drones with the ships that only have one drone a piece. When they all got to fire at one ship you'd have a chance of something getting through - with single shots tractor beams become a significant mitigating factor. Oh well.

-Tim
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Re: Kzinti & Drones - Input Welcomed

Postby McKinstry » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:55 pm

AdmiralGrafSpee wrote:I played a game Friday night - Feds vs Romulans. Gotta say with the new max 3 ships targetting another ship rule - it really feels like a big waste of time even launching the drones with the ships that only have one drone a piece. When they all got to fire at one ship you'd have a chance of something getting through - with single shots tractor beams become a significant mitigating factor. Oh well.

-Tim
Most folks have abandoned all the Fed drone one ships. They are too puny in the ADD role to be on the table with a drone heavy fleet and since drones are so deadly versus the plasma fleets, it is way effective to load up on DWD's and BCG's to kill them at a distance since their defense can't cope with three 4 drone waves.

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