Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Da Boss » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:45 pm

I do like the idea of scaled ships :)
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Captain Jonah » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:22 pm

Yes, for the DD, CL, BC, BCH and DN. The pre war ships with decoration. Not the war era BDD, HDD, CM as they are fast cheap built units with no time or money for fancy decorations.
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby H » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:28 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:Yes, for the DD, CL, BC, BCH and DN. The pre war ships with decoration. Not the war era BDD, HDD, CM as they are fast cheap built units with no time or money for fancy decorations.
but if the machining is already in place, then you would make them to the same standards, at least this is the argument i've had thrown in my face umpteen times for talking abiout variation
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Captain Jonah » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:47 pm

H wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:Yes, for the DD, CL, BC, BCH and DN. The pre war ships with decoration. Not the war era BDD, HDD, CM as they are fast cheap built units with no time or money for fancy decorations.
but if the machining is already in place, then you would make them to the same standards, at least this is the argument I’ve had thrown in my face umpteen times for talking about variation
My thinking is that the machinery isn't in place. The pre war ship yards would be making a few ships a year. The war years result in an increase in ship yards, factories and so on to produce the vast numbers of ships needed. The new yards and machines will be designed to produce the parts, hulls etc as quickly and efficiently as possible. If it takes 1% more time and cost to decorate the hulls that is 1% that is not being spend somewhere vital.

The Gorn are seriously tight fisted. Remember the fleet had to lie about the HDD being a light cruiser because the bean counters said the fleet had a light cruiser already. With every credit being counted and war era ships being rushed out at 60-70% the cost no one is going to waste time or effort on decoration.

If on the other hand the scales are in fact the sections of ablative outer hull then they would be everywhere.
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Target » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:36 pm

What i don't get is fluff holding back models looking better. People buy models cause of stats in rulebooks and good looking minis. Better the looking minis the more you sell
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Cyporiean » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:38 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:If on the other hand the scales are in fact the sections of ablative outer hull then they would be everywhere.
I'd be fine with this.

I came into the miniatures hobby from the Gundam model kit hobby, so I have a thing for Panel lines. (And Mono-Eyes..)
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Da Boss » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:32 am

Target wrote:What i don't get is fluff holding back models looking better. People buy models cause of stats in rulebooks and good looking minis. Better the looking minis the more you sell
This +20 :D
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby H » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:33 am

Target wrote:What i don't get is fluff holding back models looking better. People buy models cause of stats in rulebooks and good looking minis. Better the looking minis the more you sell
well said sir, well said, modeling has improved no end in the last umpteen years, make use of it. just soem surface detail on the gorn makes them much more interesting, sadly i see no hope for the kzinti ;-)
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby ErikB » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:02 am

I like the Kzinti...
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Captain Jonah » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:05 am

H wrote:
Target wrote:What i don't get is fluff holding back models looking better. People buy models cause of stats in rulebooks and good looking minis. Better the looking minis the more you sell
well said sir, well said, modelling has improved no end in the last umpteen years, make use of it. just some surface detail on the gorn makes them much more interesting, sadly i see no hope for the kzinti ;-)
True, good looking ships are, well, good looking :lol:

Still I like reasonable extras, as I mentioned earlier its a war era attrition ship made quickly and lost just as quickly. You are not going to expect to see teams of Gorn Maidens hand decorating the hulls of what are in effect cannon fodder units :lol:

If the scale or a hex pattern is part of the manufacturing process since its easier to make those big saucers out of geodesic sections and assemble them rather than the old fashioned (and slow) method of huge hull plates then great, give me geodesic hex patterns on the war era ships, good looking and plausible.

Yes I know it’s a sci fi game of make believe but what is wrong with plausibility.

Still a geodesic or hex pattern on the Gorn looks very nice. Look at the picture for the 2400 Gorn fleet. That is a nice looking, distinctive and much more interesting than plain grey paint job.

http://store.starfleetstore.com/merchan ... ry_Code=GM
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby McKickaha » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:50 am

There is another plausible way of looking at the added detail tho.

They aren't cosmetic niceties

Nothing speeds up technology advancement like a good all out war. Maybe these added bits are design improvements and you stick em on the outside for the very reason of minimising interference to the established manufacturing process.

They don't even need to be improvements, they could be to free up some internal space for more ammo, personnel or for Tribble snack storage. The latter obviously require a lot of space and dependent on how fast you eat em could well rapidly become infinite.

Know i'm apparently bucking the trend of opinion here re war detail but ......................


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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Captain Jonah » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:54 pm

McKickaha wrote:There is another plausible way of looking at the added detail tho.

They aren't cosmetic niceties

Nothing speeds up technology advancement like a good all out war. Maybe these added bits are design improvements and you stick em on the outside for the very reason of minimising interference to the established manufacturing process.

They don't even need to be improvements, they could be to free up some internal space for more ammo, personnel or for Tribble snack storage. The latter obviously require a lot of space and dependent on how fast you eat em could well rapidly become infinite.

Know i'm apparently bucking the trend of opinion here re war detail but ......................
Not at all. I just like a reason for the details that look so good.

A war era ship designed for rapid construction uses small hull segments; these are manufactured at a dozen smaller factories, shipped into orbit and assembled there leaving a clear pattern on the hull where they interlock.

Pre war the hulls were made at one or two specialised factories as whole sections which were moved by tug then fitted over the ships structure to form the tops and bottoms of the saucers.

The single shell hulls are more durable and because they are in one piece require less long term maintenance. A pre war ship needs to have its hull checked every 5-6 years.

The war era segmented hulls require far more frequent checks since they are a mass of join lines. They would need to be check once a year at the very least. However if the life expectancy of the war era attrition ships is 6 months that isn’t much of a problem.

I’m more than happy to have lots of detail on the Gorn ships, after all you have plenty of chance to look at the same aspect of the Gorn cruisers from your side of the table, it’s not like they turn around much

So as I said more hull detail, less sticky out bits on the war era, less hull detail, more decorations and sticky out bits on the much refitted old ships.

Of course this is the Gorn, Gorn warriors are brave, after all they go to certain death in space going bath tubs with no manoeuvrability. The Romulans on the other hand are such a bunch of cowards that in order to get them to come out from under cloaks the ship builders need to paint big fierce birds on all their ships. It’s not to scare the enemy, its to give some courage to the Romulan crews :lol: :wink:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Jean » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:11 am

The album is now complete.

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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby McKinstry » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:19 am

Great looking ships. I think they are a vast improvement on the plain vanilla.
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Captain Jonah » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:06 pm

I'm thinking the Wild side ships are the early era ones. Lots of sections designed to be removed and upgraded. The slopped Nacelle struts, more details on the nacelles etc.

The war era ones don't get upgrades so simpler hulls but with the scale idea, geodesic hull plates, the straight up nacelle bars etc. Rough and utilitarian for the war era to reflect them being attrition units but covered in hexes, build joins, bulkier mass production rather than a bit of style on the One BC they built each year pre war.

Is there by any chance the wilder wild side stuff for us to have a look at?
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Jean » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:24 pm

Captain Jonah, you have what I have.

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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Nomad » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:28 pm

Jean wrote:I really, really need your feedback on this.

Jean

In one word Jean, I think it looks silly. There again, I wasn't planning to go large on the 2500s; making random cuts and gouges on the ship won't alter that.

Hmm, Gorn ships with scales...do human-designed ships get covered in little sweat glands?
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Jean » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:30 pm

If you don't like it, then we need to hear that as well. Thank you for your feedback.

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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Cyporiean » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:13 pm

Nomad wrote:Hmm, Gorn ships with scales...do human-designed ships get covered in little sweat glands?
No, but they do have a pattern that is akin to Hew-mon skin:
http://www.awesomestories.com/images/us ... 5f3a4e.jpg

I believe they are called a Heat Shield.

Adding a pattern like this to Gorn ships that is just a bit more reptilian scale style would make the miniatures much more interesting, and would be no worst then the panel lines on the Feddy ships or the birds on the Romulans.

These aren't ships for an early 90s computer game, lets up the polycount a bit.
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Re: Starline 2500 Gorns Walk on the Wild Side

Postby Zamboni » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:35 pm

Nomad wrote:Hmm, Gorn ships with scales...do human-designed ships get covered in little sweat glands?
Indeed they do. Many of the model maker forums refer to the Aztek pattern on the Federation ships, including making all sorts of fancy painting templates for it. I'm still trying to figure out how to duplicate it on an SL 2500.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7826/img0358ur.jpg

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