Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

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Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:02 am

So. The books released, we've got a good selection of ships for the Feds, Klinks, Romulans, Gorn and Kzinti, and some smaller mini-lists for Tholians and Orions.

So, where now? Well the obvious next big release is probably going to finish the rest of Tholian Attack, and cover Distant Races and possibly Orion Attack, and is probably the "big book release" that is currently penciled in for next year.

That means Hydrans, Lyrans, WYN, Seltorians and Neo-Tholians.

So, the purpose of this thread is thus: How should all of the myriad new technologies be converted from Federation Commander to SF:CTA?
Then there's polishing of existing rules that we currently have, namely: Plasma-D and true rules for Tholian Webs.

Another idea that has been floating about the forum is the possibilities of "leapfrogging" elements direct from SFB to CTA due to how the CTA system has a more robust capacity for certain elements: Fighters, Carriers and AEGIS ships have definitely been mentioned more than once. Alternate Drone Rack options are another thing that has been suggested elsewhere, given that Mongoose already did this in B5 with the alternate warheads for Earth Force missiles might this be considered?

So, discuss, post ideas, brainstorm.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:10 am

I'll get the ball rolling with my concept for the Lyran Expanding Sphere Generator.
This weapon can be used in offensive or defensive modes, similar to a Ph-3. When set to defensive, it will automatically stop the first 6 drones that attack this target. Each extra ESG set to defensive after the first only increases the amount of drones stopped by 3.
Offensively, each ESG attacks the closest target with 3 AD, the next nearest target with 2 AD, and the third nearest target with 1 AD. All targets must be in range 4".
I've given the AD used in the attacks Acc +2 and Multihit 2. But there are still things I'm not sure about.
Should it hit automatically? Getting to range 4 of a target in this is fairly impressive to start with.
Should the first ESG stop 6, or for ease of remembering should all ESG's only stop 3?
Is range 4 too short? This question obviously interacts with the question on rolling vs automatic hits.

One thing I am sure about is that with the ESG and the Hydran Fusion Beam is that we probably need to bite the bullet and bring back Slow Loading. Possibly renaming it something like: Cooldown so as to not confuse with Reload. A trait where a gun simply can't be used in a turn after when it was last used, without the need to use a special action to rearm it.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby katadder » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:24 am

range 4 auto hits is fine. basically an explosion centred over the ship.
would make is slow loading. but also does a hell of alot of damage when it hits (in FC fully loaded it does more than a double overloaded photon to one target)

also next should be some noble armada, fleets of fading suns ;)
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Sgt_G » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:33 am

Yes, the ESG should hit automatically. It's like a big force wall that you use to ram things with.

In SFB, you can set the size (radius), where smaller is stronger. So let's say that feature is ported over to ACTA:SF. Off the top of my head (and without knowing the game system), perhaps the 4" ESG has 3/2/1 AD, as per previous post, but a 2" ESG might have 4/3/2 AD.

In SFB, when you put the ESG up, it stays up for the entire turn (32 movement/fire impulses), unless it hits something big enough to drop it. Ergo, you don't pick offense vs. defense. If a swarm of drones hits it before you can ram an enemy ship, it's gone. And vice versa, I once saw someone fly his Kzinti BC into an ESG to drop it so a swarm of ten drones would hit home. The Kzinti BC got a bit crunched, but the Lyran DN went POOF!

As ACTA:SF uses an entirely different movement system, I suppose the ESG would not work the same.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:39 am

Well, I meant for SF:CTA. Probably should have been a little clearer.

Yeah, we probably do need a separate board for NA and SF CTA flavours at this point.

So, Plas-D racks, the KRC get's them, the ISC are famous for them, but at the moment they don't ACTUALLY seem to have any sort of defensive use, despite the D standing for Defensive.
So, how about this:

Plasma-D racks can be fired defensively and will reduce the AD of any ONE Plasma attack by D6. So using against and F-Type will pretty much neutralise it, but since most ships come in with multiple Plasma salvoes, it means that you have to pick and choose which Plasma you aim the Pl-D at.

Also, Fusion Beams: R8 / 4AD / Precise +2 Multihit 2, Energy Bleed, Killzone 2", Cooldown (Can be Overloaded)

A special Suicide Overload mode could also be tested, as one that x3 instead of x2 the multihit trait, but automatically incurs a Weapons Critical if any are fired.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:44 am

Sgt_G wrote:Yes, the ESG should hit automatically. It's like a big force wall that you use to ram things with.

In SFB, you can set the size (radius), where smaller is stronger. So let's say that feature is ported over to ACTA:SF. Off the top of my head (and without knowing the game system), perhaps the 4" ESG has 3/2/1 AD, as per previous post, but a 2" ESG might have 4/3/2 AD.
Thing is, SF:CTA is using the Federation Commander ruleset, where ESG's are simply large force explosions, I don't think they have variable sizes. Even if they did, I'm pretty sure it's an extra layer of complexity to the CTA system that it probably doesn't need.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby katadder » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:45 am

well as most stuff seems to be going off the FC thing and FC has a simpler version of ESGs than SFB I think this will be simpler still.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iron Domokun » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:26 pm

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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby starbreaker » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:39 pm

At least battleships might actually be interesting to use in ACTA, which is designed to handle the kind of fleet actions they belong in. Always found them terribly dull and out of place in SFB, as with most of the really big stuff. Can't see SFU getting another turn at bat for new releases for a while yet, though.

The next step is releasing the Fleets of the Fading Suns book along with Vau, the Church, whatever other new Royal House ships are in it. After that, we need a second book with the League and the Symbiots, whatever other new ships for existing factions they can come up with, and perhaps some rules for static models - space stations, defense sats, shipyards, etc. Might even see rules for some kind of space monsters or other astrofauna - they fit Fading Suns' setting nicely.

With Fleets announced for March at the latest, I expect that and the Judge Dredd releases will be eating up most of the production capability through to next spring. Of course, Dredd might be a bigger deal than expected. That talk about a Manta Prowl Tank makes me wonder if they've got a rules expansion/variant in the works dealing with larger-scale conflicts rather than keeping the game confined to relatively small gang fights. There's certainly room in the setting for such, whether it's mass riots, block wars, or the Sov-Cit invasion. If there's something like that in the works, both the ACTA games are probably in for a wait. New-shiny always sells best, and Dredd's got a lot of fans.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Apep » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:13 pm

Given the interest in ACTA:SFU (even despite current problems) my feeling is that the next expansion / book should be released around May time (or earlier if possible) to capitalise and expand on the SFU. There are some 2400 series mini’s I am desperate to see converted to 2500.

Noble Armada is in a funny situation as it is getting buried by SFU issues and the boards need to be split to allow discussions on it development to take place. Ideally the “Fading Suns” book and mini’s needs to be brought forward to support the Noble Armada game.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Nerroth » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:51 pm

It has beeen stated elsewhere that the current plan is to have one major book release (and corresponding wave of Starline 2500 miniatures) each year, which would put book 2 in the second half of 2012; which should hopefully leave enough room for Fleets of the Fading Suns, Victory at Sea 2.0, and other Mongoose tabletop-based projects to each do their thing.


To clarify, the Federation battleship is the Ares-class; they are each named after various Earth gods of war and/or destruction. (How the likes of Andoria and Vulcan feel about the Terrans hogging so many Star Fleet ship names is another story, perhaps.)

Also, the (Neo-)Tholian battleships did exist in numbers back in the M81 Galaxy; while none were present in the "historical" 312th Battle Squadron, there was one (the War Havoc) which led a separate Tholian exodus from M81 to the Draco Dwarf Galaxy.

Indeed, to the great chagrin of the Tholians as a species, the Seltorian Battlewagon from FC:BA was all too terrifyingly real; it was used in the home galaxy as the primary siege engine against Will-held planets, starbases, and even the vaunted Spheres. (Each Sphere was held together by myriad streams of web; the massed web breakers on the sides of Seltorian Battlewagons could destabilise a Sphere to the point of collapse, destroying everything, and everyone, within it. Thus the Seltorians were able to kill ten billion Tholians at a time, for each Sphere they were able to crack.) While the Tribunal expedition in the Alpha Octant were never in a position to conver their own Hive Ship (the Burning Torch of Vengeance) into a Battlewagon for use against the Holdfast Sphere, it's likely they would have done so had they been able to create the conditions necessary for such a plan to work.


But anyway.

Since the Tholian Attack ships seem a safe bet for inclusion in book 2, there would be a number of systems they would need; web generators, web casters, particle cannons, shield crackers/web breakers.

Also, I would hope to see rules included which supported actions in the home galaxy; where Neo-Tholian ships use particle cannons in place of disruptors, where suicide shuttles and suicide freighters do not exist, and where the largest ships (and most devastating battles) of the Tholian and Seltorian armadas took place.

One dynamic which might be interesting to see is how well (or not) Seltorian players can make use of transporter operations once they are ported over. The Selts were engineered to be the ground forces of the Tholian Will; the combination of shield crackers and their large numbers of Marine squads per ship class allowed them to act as effective boarders when faced with pirates or rebels. However, depending on how Marine operations are handled in ACtA:SF, the extent to which they could pursue such operations might (or might not) be a significant factor in this game system.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby GalagaGalaxian » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:27 pm

So Battleships Attack + Tholian Attack + Orion attack perhaps as the next likely race? Fills out the two "partials", adds some super-heavies to each fleet, and throws in a new race (Seltorians) for extra fun.

I'd like to see Distant Kingdonms, but I seem to recall it being mentioned that Hydrans won't show up for a while. :( I certainly want to see more Orion stuff though, I've always liked the devious underdogs. Hopefully they'll get back Plasma Torpedoes as option mount choices.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Nerroth » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:03 pm

I wouldn't feel too bad about having to wait for the Hydrans; the guys I would really want to see show up won't be on the table for a lot longer (or possibly ever, if Mongoose decides not to bother with them)...
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Nerroth wrote:I wouldn't feel too bad about having to wait for the Hydrans; the guys I would really want to see show up won't be on the table for a lot longer (or possibly ever, if Mongoose decides not to bother with them)...
Oh, are they one of the Omega Octant races? Or a Simulator Race?
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Nerroth » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:47 pm

From the Alpha Octant, I'd look most forward to the War and Peace crowd (More specifically the ISC and Andromedans*; I'm not so enthused about the Vudar); but I would love to see Mongoose take the game to places like the Omega Octant, the Lesser Magellanic Cloud and the Triangulum Galaxy at some later point.

Simulator empires, I'm less interested in, save for the conjectural Juggernaut Empire (which would be fun to see show up).

*Well, technically they aren't an Alpha power, of course; but they do get published in with the Alpha block of empires by and large. Although, they do get around, making them viable in several settings.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:58 pm

Simulator empires, I'm less interested in, save for the conjectural Juggernaut Empire (which would be fun to see show up).
It'd be nice to get a few Frax designs in a S&P at some point so we can celebrate Christmas the Klingon way: With a navy wide simulation of an invasion of the Klingon Empire... by WW2 era battleships.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:11 pm

Actually, on the subject of the Juggernaut, some Space Monster scenarios would be cool too: Giant Amoeba's, Space Dragons and the good old Planet Killer.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iron Domokun » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:22 pm

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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Iapologisedon4chan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:20 pm

Iron Domokun wrote:Use V@S minis for the Frax.

"Where's the warp engines?"
"You can't see them because they're below the waterline!"
I was actually going to suggest that if it came up. Heck, it wouldn't be out of place to use all kinds of odd models lying about the place for the Simulator races. I've got a box full of napoleonic cardstock ships lying about for the Britanians, Sharkhunters look a LOT like biro pen-lids to me, and as for the Qaris... well, we're all wargamers here, I'm sure most of us have some WW2 tanks in some scale or another floating about somewhere :)

It's the sort of thing that would fit really well with them, all they'd need is a statblock, no need for images or anything past a basic diagram perhaps?

Also, Canadi'ens flying about in bright red maple leaf shaped ships packing triple maulers.
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Re: Where now? A Brainstorming Thread.

Postby Nomad » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:06 am

Plasma-D racks can be fired defensively and will reduce the AD of any ONE Plasma attack by D6. So using against and F-Type will pretty much neutralise it, but since most ships come in with multiple Plasma salvoes, it means that you have to pick and choose which Plasma you aim the Pl-D at.
Plasma -Ds can fire upto four times in the same turn before reloading against drones, fighters or PFs (or once per turn against larger targets). They have no effect against incoming plasma torpedoes at all - you can't target a plasma against another plasma.

Perhaps allow any Plasma-D to fire either one Plasma-D torp offensively or fire defensively as an Anti-drone each turn (rather like Fed drone racks). If it runs out of ammo, it can do nothing for the rest of the game.
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