New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
Rick
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:13 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Rick » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi Hiro, long time no see. Yes of course I remember chiwie - I was helping him with research for the new Aussie organisation. I did have a look at the Zupan development site but you although you mentioned you'd got some Modern books in the pipeline, you didn't seem to have any progress on the site. If I can sort out some more army lists I may well drop you a line about doing a compilation book!
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Hiromoon » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:03 pm

That'd be great.

And yeah, I should update the site a bit. Was hoping to get four books out last year but Life being what it is...

Still, the Urban Combat book notes, at least, look good.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
Sevya
Mongoose
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:29 pm

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Sevya » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:29 am

Rick wrote: The information I was using was both pre- and post-afghanistan. As you say, in pre-afghanistan platoons, 1 soldier had the option of replacing his AK with an SVD. During afghanistan, company commanders tried to get hold of as many SVD's as possible as they found they were very useful in a supression role - either supporting a squad or 2-3 together in a seperate team supporting a platoon. The numbers of SVD's in a platoon seem to have increased during and post afghanistan to 1 per squad (at least in a mechanised unit). Adding an extra rifleman with an SVD rather than allowing a rifleman to swap out an AK for one seemed like a good idea at the time to limit the numbers and make a player consider whether to carry a command team or extra SVD's, as well as the fact that it can be difficult to determine whether the maximum size of a bmp squad is 7 or 8 men (sometimes the platoon or squad leader is also the vehicle commander - making the crew 2 not 3).

Unfortunately, I do not have a method to determine points values - beyond recognising that 1 man is approx 10 points - it comes down to what seems balanced in comparison with other organisations. If I come up with a set formula that seems to work, I'll let you know!

As to sources - "Janes - Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army" by David Isby is extremely thorough and still not out-dated; the organisations shown in this book are still used by the Russians (even if some of the equipment has been upgraded or superseded). If you can get hold of this book, do so - it's brilliant, but always check out the information by other sources as well (Micromark army lists are good, but not as well detailed).
Your work here does reflect the somewhat variable squad size well. I had seen the smaller dismount teams listed in later sources. This is sometimes attributed to smaller squads, and sometimes to the squad leader staying inside the BMP.

Your point values seem pretty close to what I'd expect, so it seems to be working. I have some formulas I put together when I was working on a Traveller conversion for BF:Evo. They are kind of complex, and I haven't really had the opportunity to test them. I ended up going with the more Striker like method of charging the monetary cost for equipment, rather than trying to figure out how to mathematically represent the combat capabilities.

I have "Janes - Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army". I find it more useful for the tactics used. For organization and equipment I like US Army manual "FM 100-2-3 The Soviet Army Troops, Organization, and Equipment", although it hasn't been updated since 1991. I'm just more familiar with the layout of it. For my motorized units, I was planning on using the stats for the Chinese WZ-551, with the passengers dropped to 8, to represent the BTR-80A. It seems like a good fit to me.

Sevya
Rick
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:13 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Rick » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:17 am

Thanks for that Sevya. What I would say about the organisations (not seen the FM-100-2-3 document yet) is that they are not completely obsolete. The Russians are still using these organisations and, due to decreased production of the latest vehicles, extended the life of some of the older vehicles as well - such as the BMP-2 and Shilka. From what I can determine, units equipped with the latest BMP-3 vehicles are rarely seen and it appears that they are using the 'category 2' units in most areas.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
PLA_man
Shrew
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby PLA_man » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:40 pm

I think the Russian air units need an overhaul I mean talk about out of date planes and weapons for them. Where did they get there info from?

SU-35 Super flanker (carries big weapons)

PAK-FA T50 (very hard to hit and ultra elite)

KA-52 Alligator (newer KA-50 black shark)
Rick
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:13 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Rick » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:56 pm

PLA_man wrote:I think the Russian air units need an overhaul I mean talk about out of date planes and weapons for them. Where did they get there info from?

SU-35 Super flanker (carries big weapons)

PAK-FA T50 (very hard to hit and ultra elite)

KA-52 Alligator (newer KA-50 black shark)
You might be right on that - it's very difficult to keep up-to-date. You got an in-service date for those 3 and/or info on which units are being equipped?
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
Sgt. Scream
Stoat
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: on the painting desk / creating rules
Contact:

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Sgt. Scream » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:55 pm

Heinz wrote:It may not be officially supported anymore, but my group is still playing (and loving) Battlefield Evolution: Modern Warfare. Now, there were a number of lists and new units created by a Polish veteran that were listed on Battlefield Evo Command for the old edition. There were also new lists and units for the Heer and the USMC for the new edition, presumably by another author. My sincere thanks to them, whoever they are. I apologize that I have no information on who they are or how to contact them or I'd thank them directly.

Those two individuals would have been me (Chris) and Pietia (Thomasz). Wow, I didn't realize someone still supports BF Evo ever since the site (evocommand) went down due to various reasons (spam attacks and funds mainly). :mrgreen:
Scream's 20mm modern military wargaming blog....
http://smallscaleoperations.blogspot.com/
Heinz
Shrew
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Heinz » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:06 am

My sincere thanks to you, Chris! Battlefield Evolution is a great set of rules. I see no reason to stop using it just because it's no longer being printed. The fact that it's become the basis for multiple game systems is a testament to its playability. And, yes, we're still playing it. I'm thankful that Mongoose is hosting this forum to discuss the game still. In addition to Mongoose's pre-painted pieces, which is what got us started, my group also uses 1:72nd scale vehicles and 20mm infantry. I see myself playing Battlefield Evolution: Modern Combat for many more years. In fact, right now, I'm trying to adapt it for use with a mix of 1:144th scale tanks, 10mm infantry, vehicles and terrain, and N scale terrain.

I know if my group is still using these rules, that there are others out there who we haven't yet heard from.

Hmmm... Speaking of which, while I've got ya, Chris, is there any chance of any more army lists for the current edition in the future? I'd certainly love to get my hands on a list for the IDF. Pietia's IDF card pack was great, but it was really just four vehicles, no information on infantry or even organization, and it was for the first edition. A more comprehensive list would be pretty popular, I would think...

I've long wanted to create additional lists which would expand and enhance Battlefield Evo to cover older conflicts, (Africa's bush wars, Lebanon 1982, the Arab-Israeli wars, even Vietnam, etc.), and I have an idea how it could be achieved with a minimum of work, but I just don't have the technical knowledge to create the individual unit stats. I'd love to share my ideas with you, though, if you're interested.
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents,". -Howard Phillips Lovecraft
Heinz
Shrew
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Heinz » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:18 am

Ha! Just saw your signature! I've 'Googled' my way to your blog a thousand times, despite the fact that I have it bookmarked in several places. I think I've come across your posts in other forums as well. Good to bump into you again.
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents,". -Howard Phillips Lovecraft
Sgt. Scream
Stoat
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: on the painting desk / creating rules
Contact:

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Sgt. Scream » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:08 am

I still have the templates that Thomasz and me were using to create the cards for the current BF Evo game. Putting new stats and pics in for any army wouldn't be a problem.

I just came back to this forum after a long time as I was thinking about Pietia the last couple of days. I am about to get into something that I started back in the days when evocommand was still around and it was a joint-venture with Thomasz at these times.

I found tons of cards that I made for a game that we never have shown to public before the spam attacks were "killing" the forum. I am thinking about giving these a revamp and add rules and ideas from other games than BF Evo to expand the experience. But I am off topic now.

Well, creating cards isn't that hard. Playtesting and writing stats that are believable and playable is. If you came accross my page you might have read that I am now involved in other games as well. Time is really something that I lack the most - if I'd had more of it on my hands, believe me - I'd be creating nothing but rules and stats. I am like a robot when it comes to this. 8)
Scream's 20mm modern military wargaming blog....
http://smallscaleoperations.blogspot.com/
Heinz
Shrew
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby Heinz » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:20 pm

Chris,

I was afraid of that. Everyone has a finite amount of time, and yes, I could see you probably had your hands full.

Nonetheless, if you should find the time, this wargamer would certainly love to see these cards, if you ever get around to your revamp. I don't see why you couldn't post them here (if they are, indeed, usable for Battlefield Evo), provided you clear it with a moderator.

Good Luck in your endeavors.

And Good Hunting!

-D
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents,". -Howard Phillips Lovecraft
PLA_man
Shrew
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: New Units or Army Lists for Battlefield Evo: Modern?

Postby PLA_man » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:01 pm

Rick wrote:
PLA_man wrote:I think the Russian air units need an overhaul I mean talk about out of date planes and weapons for them. Where did they get there info from?

SU-35 Super flanker (carries big weapons)

PAK-FA T50 (very hard to hit and ultra elite)

KA-52 Alligator (newer KA-50 black shark)
You might be right on that - it's very difficult to keep up-to-date. You got an in-service date for those 3 and/or info on which units are being equipped?

Sorry for the super late reply but here it is

AIRCRAFT

SU-35 Super flanker (around march 2012) but had them in 2011

PAK -FA 50 still in test flight stage 2015 service target

KA-52 somewhere between 10 February 2011 and early 2012

also note a mig35 foxhound BM (major re-work of entire aircraft design) is in the works designed for BVR in mind. 2015 to 2020 service target

Aircraft weapons


for base air to air missiles to match the setting of modern combat you would be looking at

Vympel R-73 (NATO reporting name AA-11 'Archer') — short-range IR
Vympel R-77 (NATO reporting name AA-12 'Adder') — medium-range active radar
Vympel R-37 (NATO reporting name AA-X-13 'Arrow') — long-range SARH or active radar
Novator KS-172 AAM-L — extreme long range, inertial navigation with active radar for terminal homing

"so the AA-11 was right in the book."

for air to ground
KH38M or KH58 USHK air-to-ground missiles

250–500 kg precision guided bombs for a larger plane around 10 in the bays

or a 1500 Kg bomb per bay. normally 2 per plane

for rockets

S-25LD laser-guided rocket, S-250 unguided rocket,
B-8 unguided S-8 rocket pods,
B-13 unguided S-13 rocket pods

TANKS

on the tanks side of things the t95 in the rule book is now cancelled and has been merged into the Armata" Universal Combat Platform" project in the form of the t-99 main battle tank and will have an enhanced 125mm smooth bore gun with ATGM capability and 30mm Anti-aircraft gun as a secondary gun. The cannon is a more powerful weapon than the gun on the t-95 but the tank itself weighs less, has better armour, will be faster,have a better autoloader system and safer storage of ammunition. 2015 service date target.

Note IFV's for Russians will use same platform.

Hope this helped

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests