Anti Vree tactics

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jedimasterwiggy
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Anti Vree tactics

Postby jedimasterwiggy » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:47 pm

Hi all,

We have been running a campaign based on the normal 2nd edition rules in the book but with most of the P&P ship updates and order stuff (no race specific bit though). The fleets taking part are Earth (3rd age), Narn, Drazi and Vree.
After 6 turns the Vree fleet stands at being larger than it started, Earth at 7 Battle points, Narn about the same and Drazi just got a huge kicking from the Vree and down to about 2 Battle points.
Teh guy using the vree only started playing this campaign and while an experience wargammer we are wondering how he is doing so well.
I used Vree in the last campaign and won with similar tactics of running 2/3 Xill's together in big games to overwhelm an area with SAP, DD firepower and using the patrol and skirmish choices to outnumber the enemy. Now being on the otherside of it i'm asking are Vree a little too easy to use?
So I would like to know some of the ideas and tactics the community at large have for dealing with the flying saucer menace.
Keep them at range and chip away?
Get in the middle to fire multiple arcs while they have 1?
What ideas do people have?

Cheers
Wiggy
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Postby Greg Smith » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:38 pm

Interceptors: use fighters if neccesary. The Vree SAP guns don't tend to have a lot of AD, so interceptors can reduce this quite well.

Also, being outnumbered is bad. In ACTA, a bunch of small ships tends to do better than similar FAPs of big ships.
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Postby Da Boss » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:47 pm

Easy answer - use Centauri, Dilgar, Minbari or Shadows - all of which can match the strengths of the Vree with respectively

Choice, fighter cover, Maximus, firepower and agility
Devestating missile barrrages then close and pound them into obilvion
Stealth, range and Stealth removing ability
Durability, Stealth and superior agility

General advice - if he is choosing the shorter range Vree ships - try and make him come to to you.....

The Xill is a excellent vessel and the like pretty much all the Vree ships at higher levels is durable and dangerous. It is however relatively short ranged

Narn - go for small in sinks (Sho'Kos torpedo cutters on CBD are very effective) and emine ships to deal with his fighters and the low level vessels. A Dag'Kar is good aginst Patrol and Skrimish Vree Ships. Var'nic is good for sitting back and trying to get them to come to you Thentus are always a good vessel.

EA - try and use your range advantage (missiles and beams) and interceptor defences coupled with CBD.

Drazi - er not sure - would be hard, very hard -
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Postby jedimasterwiggy » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:22 pm

thanks for the initial replies....although changing fleet mid campaign, not so useful! :D
I'm not sure i agree on the interceptors front....with SAP a lot of the Vree guns hit against hull 5 ships and with only 1/2 interceptors only take about 6AD to start causing hits. Most Vree easily have this.
Range makes sense for me (as Earth)....any ships that you would say are good, thinking olympus and hermes?
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Postby Da Boss » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:39 pm

Hermes is almost always a good ship - it should be serving you well - as a In sink, a free fighter and CBD plus missile fire. Same with the Olympus really.

Interceptors are a good, but unreliable defence - Often they can either be incredably effective or be useless.

Unfortunately IMO TA Earth are probably a lot less effective aginst the Vree than Early Years - who have lots of good small ships and effective dedicated missile boats - if you can get some of these through other duties it would be a bonus
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Postby Iain McGhee » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:33 am

Agreed on Da Boss's ship choices, missiles are the way to go for EA and Drazi as Vree are rather vulnerable to precise weapons (only 1 fire arc) and don't have interceptors unless they use fighter flights in that role. Worth taking a scout along to redirect missile fire and consider using CBD most of the time against the larger Vree ships or groups since you can't rely on interceptors or dodge and it doesn't take many DD hits to cripple or destroy smaller ships (esp. if they score criticals). I think the Narn will have a harder time against them since the Vree can literally fly rings around them and stay out of their main weapon arcs and secondary range after the first few turns. Best bet is probably to spam E-Mines on them at long range and consider using groups of smaller ships so that you have initiative sinks to let you line up at least a couple of boresights and/or forward arc weapons each turn.
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Postby Tolwyn » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:10 am

For Narn the Sho'kov, G'Karith and Ka'Tan would be good.
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Postby Taran » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:43 am

Interceptors. Add fighters to increase to 3 or 4 interceptors per ship. Have an Explorer? Bring it for the fighters, Scout and +1 Command. Run it right down his throat and then pretty much ignore what he does to it. If he lets it get into range, his mistake.
And keep the rest of your ships back but throw any fighters not on INT duty down his throat with the Explorer.

EA ships from any period are reasonably tough and have plenty of INT to handle Vree.
You should be able to just roll him up.
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Postby CZuschlag » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:51 pm

And old blast from the past checking in, and wanting to remind anti-Vree players that Vree, if using Super-Manouverable, are moving at or less than half their speed. This makes them EXTREMELY vulnerable to Launch Shuttles and Boarding Parties. Vree that forget this fact are annihilated, as they have no Troopers of which to speak. Narn and Drazi have lots of boarding parties. Have a ball.

(Because of a variety of range and crew-count factors, the ClawEagle is a LETHAL threat, terrifying ships all the way up to Xill size for the price of a fraction of a Patrol. Sure it dies easily, but if it gets there, look out. Perfect Xaar and Xaak hunter. If he doesn't understand that now ... he will!).

Other thoughts --- if you get the initiative, set up first and deny him any random terrain. Random terrain makes the Vree much more powerful, as their SM capabilities allow them to play line-of-sight games that you frankly can't.

Make sure you're playing with the P&P Xeel and Xaar; it's mandatory if you want balance.
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Postby Da Boss » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:27 am

CZuschlag wrote:And old blast from the past checking in, .
good to see you back again :)
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Postby AdrianH » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:22 am

CZuschlag wrote:And old blast from the past checking in, and wanting to remind anti-Vree players that Vree, if using Super-Manouverable, are moving at or less than half their speed. This makes them EXTREMELY vulnerable to Launch Shuttles and Boarding Parties. Vree that forget this fact are annihilated, as they have no Troopers of which to speak. Narn and Drazi have lots of boarding parties.
So do the Brakiri. If you want to make a Vree player think twice about SM, have an Ikorta or two. (Those even have interceptors in case the Vree decide to try to remove the threat.)
Other thoughts --- if you get the initiative, set up first and deny him any random terrain. Random terrain makes the Vree much more powerful, as their SM capabilities allow them to play line-of-sight games that you frankly can't.
Out of interest, exactly when should terrain be randomly generated? Reading the scenario rules, the bit about random stellar debris is always right at the end of the pre-battle preparation bit, after the instruction to set up fleets whether by initiative roll or fixed by the scenario. Less formally, in most games I've played, the players pick their spots around the table; dump coats, bags etc.; and then play from there regardless of where the scenery appears.

Besides, if Vree don't have any terrain to play with and have to charge across open space then they're probably doomed - they have no active defences and don't want to play "Charge of the Light Brigade"...
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Postby Burger » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:48 am

Welcome CZ :)

Yes boarding against the Vree is a good tactic, and a great area-denial tactic. Just don't try it with a ship too small, else you'll get Extraction Beamed to death!!

Stick a couple of Star Snakes on interceptor duty on your Claweagles, and you're good to go :lol: Only problem being the opposed CQ roll, the Vree have +1 CQ. If you can, do Launch Breaching Pods and Shuttles before clamping on... ;)

We could do with a new special action: "Clear The Asteroids!"... on a CQ roll of 9, all weapons are targetted on the asteroid field, reducing its density by 1. If reduced to below 6, it disappears. No weapons may be fired at any other targets.
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Postby Banichi » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:30 am

AdrianH wrote:and don't want to play "Charge of the Light Brigade"...
Don't you mean "Charge of the Army of Light Brigade"
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Postby E-Mines Hurt » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:25 pm

Burger wrote:Welcome CZ :)

Yes boarding against the Vree is a good tactic, and a great area-denial tactic. Just don't try it with a ship too small, else you'll get Extraction Beamed to death!!
Quite handy of those Vree to help us move marines onto their ships if you ask me....
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Postby AdrianH » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:24 am

Banichi wrote:Don't you mean "Charge of the Army of Light Brigade"
No, that was someone's White Stars in a recent game, which charged straight at a Centauri group of two Centurions and an Altarian, and found that dodge plus adaptive armour do not make White Stars invulnerable after all. :twisted:
E-Mines Hurt wrote:Quite handy of those Vree to help us move marines onto their ships if you ask me....
We don't mind bringing your marines onto our ships and straight into the dissection laboratories. It's the marines who are impolite enough to enter without knocking which are the problem...
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Postby Iain McGhee » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:15 am

Burger wrote: Stick a couple of Star Snakes on interceptor duty on your Claweagles, and you're good to go :lol: Only problem being the opposed CQ roll, the Vree have +1 CQ. If you can, do Launch Breaching Pods and Shuttles before clamping on... ;)
If you mean Interceptors then no you can't, unfortunately. They've got Weak guns.
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Postby Burger » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:18 am

Oh yeah, DOH! As I wrote that I was wondering why I'd never actually done it before :lol:
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Postby CZuschlag » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:44 am

Remember Ripple? He used to complain mightily about the Weak meaning you couldn't use Snakes for interceptors mightily.

He had a good point, too. Especially given how wretched the Nightfalcon is.
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Early EA -- Tertiary
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Postby Burger » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:20 am

I don't think I've ever used a Night/Stormfalcon! Or a Star Snake at all, in fact.
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Postby locarno24 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:26 am

You don't generally need them. Pound for pound the guardhawk is one of the best flak ships out there...
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.

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