I just don't get Lethal Zones.

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
Mark A. Siefert
Mongoose
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:33 am
Location: Muskego, WI, USA

I just don't get Lethal Zones.

Postby Mark A. Siefert » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:30 am

Yes, I've the errata, but it doesn't tell me mucht. What kind of extra damage dice am I supposed to roll? Can someone give me an example of play?
Later,
Mark A. Siefert

"Well Mike, I guess it's just a magical land. I HATE MAGICAL LANDS!"
--Crow T. Robot
"Jack Frost," Mystery Science Theater 3000
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:37 pm

Well, any model in a lethal zone gets the weapon's damage dice rolled against it.

If you direct fire the LZ weapon... well...

Sample Weapon
Damage: 2d6
Range: Unimportant
Traits: LZ/2"

You multiply the number of dice rolled by the size of the leathal zone, meaning a target gets 4d6 against it instead of merely 2d6.


Others feel free to correct me.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
Lorcan Nagle
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2404
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:46 am
Location: Ireland

Postby Lorcan Nagle » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:40 pm

not quite, you centre the lethal zone on the target, and the target and everything else in the LZ's area gets a seperate roll equal to the weapon's Attack Dice.

So in the example above the target gets 2D6 rolled against it, and so does every other model witin 2"
Image
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:35 pm

Sorry, I'm used to something called Templates.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
Mark A. Siefert
Mongoose
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:33 am
Location: Muskego, WI, USA

Postby Mark A. Siefert » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:41 am

OK, I think I understand now.
Later,
Mark A. Siefert

"Well Mike, I guess it's just a magical land. I HATE MAGICAL LANDS!"
--Crow T. Robot
"Jack Frost," Mystery Science Theater 3000
Lorcan Nagle
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2404
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:46 am
Location: Ireland

Postby Lorcan Nagle » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:16 pm

Hiromoon wrote:Sorry, I'm used to something called Templates.
Yeah, it's basically a template weapon renamed for some reason...
Image
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:47 pm

And those templates are still available too! :D

Mmm... supply and demand.. soo good.
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
basaint
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:33 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA

Postby basaint » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:13 pm

Ok, theres 2 diff. explanations. One says doubling the dice...I thought it was just dice # per target, in the LZ (radius)?
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:55 pm

you double the dice if you're doing direct fire. Otherwise, when using it as a LZ weapon, any model within the LZ (say, LZ 2", any model within 2" of the target point) gets a separate attack roll against them.

So: Weapons A Range: Bleh, Damage: 2xD6, Traits: LZ/2

Direct Fire: 4xD6
Indirect Fire: 2xD6 against all figures within 2" of target point.

Lorcan Nagle can correct me as usual. :D
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
Iain McGhee
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: Paisley, Scotland

Postby Iain McGhee » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:42 pm

MC and WAW don't work like that for Direct Fire :? . Perhaps you're thinking of SST or the original B:E ?

Original SST multiplies the Damage Dice by the LZ radius and uses the Auto weapons Fire Zone for Direct Fire and uses the blast radius for Indirect Fire (with each model in the radius having all the weapon's dice rolled against it rather than assigning them as you do for Direct).

MC and WAW instead either uses the artillery rules i.e. every model within the weapon's blast radius from the impact point gets the weapon's full damage dice rolled against it or fires directly i.e. assign dice as for normal direct fire but any models within the blast radius of the weapon (taken from the model that the Fire Zone is centered on) also have the weapon's full damage dice rolled against them.

Using the same example as Hiromoon, firing as Artillery is exactly as he describes. Direct fire would be a little different:

Direct Fire: Assign 2xD6 to figures within the Fire Zone, same as for all Shoot actions. Each model within 2" of the targeted model also has 2xD6 rolled against them. Note that with MC and WAW, you have to pick a model as the centre of your Fire Zone, in original SST it can be any point within range and LOS.

Official explanations for this are in the Play Guide and Play Sheet downloads from the game's homepage on this site.
Hiromoon
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7098
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 3:02 am
Location: TFCT Michael Fleming Folland
Contact:

Postby Hiromoon » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:34 pm

Alas, you're correct..

Sorry, I preferred the original use of LZ weapons
ImageImage
Thanks Veon and ScipioAmericanus!
www.zupandevelopment.com
Iain McGhee
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: Paisley, Scotland

Postby Iain McGhee » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:01 pm

So did I, much more straightforward when you were direct firing with a unit with a mixture of small arms and area effect weapons.
RichJones
Weasel
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 am

Postby RichJones » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:29 pm

OK I have read everything and am still confused !

If a weapon has a 1" lethal zone 1d6 damage from direct fire say - it hits target for 1d6 and then everyone in lethal zone which is a radius gets 1d6 as well, including the original target ... hopefully right so far.

Now if it is a 500lb bomb it gets 1d10 and has a 6" LZ (so a 12" template basically) the target point if it hits anything dead on after moving it about gets 2d10 and then everything within 6" radius gets a d10 - ouch!

Cover doesn't count so only normal saving throw .... but what happens if there is a building/ rock (or whatever) between target point and the model?

Also if arty or bombs are moved do you stop when back at target point or carry on the other side - so if it it moved a d10 and the first is a 4 to move away and then a 9 to move back does it hit dead on or move 5 inch the other way so to speak.

Thanks in confusion
Agis
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 10:44 am
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Postby Agis » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:18 pm

RichJones wrote:If a weapon has a 1" lethal zone 1d6 damage from direct fire say - it hits target for 1d6 and then everyone in lethal zone which is a radius gets 1d6 as well, including the original target ... hopefully right so far.
Right! Quote from Page 21 WaW rulebook:
"...roll the weapon’s Damage Dice against every model either fully
or partially within the weapon’s Lethal Zone."
RichJones wrote:Now if it is a 500lb bomb it gets 1d10 and has a 6" LZ (so a 12" template basically) the target point if it hits anything dead on after moving it about gets 2d10 and then everything within 6" radius gets a d10 - ouch!
Cover doesn't count so only normal saving throw .... but what happens if there is a building/ rock (or whatever) between target point and the model?
It does not matter. Again the above Quote from Page 21 WaW rulebook...
RichJones wrote:Also if arty or bombs are moved do you stop when back at target point or carry on the other side - so if it it moved a d10 and the first is a 4 to move away and then a 9 to move back does it hit dead on or move 5 inch the other way so to speak.
Again Page 21 is helpful...
"The opposing player rolls one D10 and moves the Impact
Point this many inches in any direction. That attacking
player then rolls another D10 and moves the Impact
Point this many inches directly back towards its original
position."
Nothing that it stops "dead on " or?
:wink:
If it would stop indirect weapons would be far too accurate...
cheers and keep on gaming, Agis
www.adpublishing.de Author of Battlefield Evolution: World at War and Pacific War
Image
RichJones
Weasel
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 am

Postby RichJones » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:49 pm

We play that it doesn't stop but someone at the club pointed out is says 'back towards' which implies it doesn't go past ... which grammatically is correct but didn't make sense.

We'd also figured out the LZ as it should be but was checking :-)

BUT what happens if there is a large structure inbetween the impact point and the model - which can happen even with a small outcrop of rock etc.

Loving the game by the way ...
Agis
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 10:44 am
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Postby Agis » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:14 am

RichJones wrote:BUT what happens if there is a large structure inbetween the impact point and the model - which can happen even with a small outcrop of rock etc.
AS said: NOTHING.
Just apply the quoted rule. 8)
This is one of the more abstract parts of the game, which are IMO absolutely OK.
cheers and keep on gaming, Agis
www.adpublishing.de Author of Battlefield Evolution: World at War and Pacific War
Image
RichJones
Weasel
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 am

Postby RichJones » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:34 am

I can live with it as it will be rare to happen from one big explosion like a bomb from aircraft etc ... arty strikes I see as more than one shell anyway more like a heavy mortar barrage etc.

We will play that anyone 'taking cover' can reroll their saves as normal as this will model the hugging the foxhole when under a barrage - just to clarify that in fact we are presuming the troops using 'taking cover' can shoot so long as they don't move and keep the benefit OR is it supposed to model troops hugging the ground and doing nothing else?

Wasn't your decision I know but a lot of the issues from the core rules could have been avoided with the use of more examples to be honest.

Rich
Agis
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 10:44 am
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Postby Agis » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:05 am

RichJones wrote:We will play that anyone 'taking cover' can reroll their saves as normal as this will model the hugging the foxhole when under a barrage - just to clarify that in fact we are presuming the troops using 'taking cover' can shoot so long as they don't move and keep the benefit OR is it supposed to model troops hugging the ground and doing nothing else?
Quote from the free World at War:Add On!:
"If an infantry unit with the Take Cover! trait that is within
any type of cover (see Page 19 of the Battlefield Evolution:
World at War book) takes a Ready action all subsequent
failed Armour Save dice of the unit may be re-rolled as
long as the unit does not take a Move action and remains
in cover."
As long as the unit does not move it can benefit from the Take Cover action. Is the above quoted wording unclear?
I am amazed how often you seem to interpret something in the rule... :wink:
cheers and keep on gaming, Agis
www.adpublishing.de Author of Battlefield Evolution: World at War and Pacific War
Image
RichJones
Weasel
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 am

Postby RichJones » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:20 am

It's not me mate, it's the people I play with :-)
Because it doesn't say they can fire they were querying it ... I said I would clarify it; to me it is clear, as is all the stuff in your bits of the rules etc - some of the WAW core rules are not however like the moving artillery bit etc.

Also stems from playing/testing far too many WWII rules!

I think that covers all the minor queries to be honest ... oh apart from one about the 'engagements' - the diagrams for the table layouts show the deployment zones to be 6" from the centre line BUT the rules state forces have to be 12" from any centre ... by the look of the diagrams I presume it is supposed to be written as 12" not 6".
Then that is it honest ...

Noticed the Pacific book doesn't have the stats for the Japanese 100lb bomb though ... Warbirds has though.

:)



Rich
Iain McGhee
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: Paisley, Scotland

Postby Iain McGhee » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:03 pm

They're both right :) You should deploy no closer than 12" from the centre but no further than 6" from your table edge. The centreline distance is there in case you have a table smaller than 4' across.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests