B5 Licence will not be renewed in 2009

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
Da Boss
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:29 am

Some googling:

“A call to arms” is a term that was used back in the early days of our country when this country was first being formed. Even at the time of the Revolutionary War, there was no army as we know it today. Even George Washington’s army was not an army like we know it. They just sent out a call for the men to come with their arms to defend what we believed in! And they came.
Well the Lord gave me that title. He said, “It’s time for a call of arms for the men of God—not just preachers but men of God.” It’s time to step up and become the leaders, spiritually and naturally God called us to be. It’s time to become the fathers we should become. It’s time to become everything He has called us to be!

—Rev. Kenneth W. Hagin

hundreds of references to the phrase across the world.........
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Postby Burger » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:40 am

But in the context of a space combat game that used to be based on B5? Hmm personally I'd definitely get some (real) legal advice on it, pesumably Mongoose will do (or already have done).
Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth.

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Alexb83
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Postby Alexb83 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:52 am

Sad news, but then I fell off the ACTA bandwagon with the second edition, so not all that sad. It's a shame that licenses need to be incrementally renewed and support can drop in this fashion. But surely not-for-profit resources like S&P are unaffected? Only the model/rules sales will have to cease?

Looking forward to that ebay resurgence now, though - I've still got big ol' Minbari and Vorlon fleets kicking about, and those Gaim I never painted...
Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

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silashand
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Postby silashand » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:00 pm

greenboy wrote:And the differnce between bfg with no support and acta B5 with no support is ? :?
BFG at least has models legally available and a freely downloadable ruleset. I seriously doubt either will exist for B5 once the license ends.

Cheers, Gary
Primary: Drakh
Secondary: Gaim
Tertiary: Centauri / Dilgar

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Postby Court Jester » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:49 pm

From the looks of it IWM will continue to produce the models. I reckon they have a license for them from WB... who knows.

I like to think Mongoose would not have started their dealings with IWM knowing they were going to ditch the license 6 months later.

Maybe I just see too much good in humanity though... :wink:
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Postby Tolwyn » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:08 pm

Some players I know start to think Mongoose betrayed them with B5:ACTA
:(
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Postby silashand » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:12 pm

I guess my question is, when exactly in 2009 does the license expire? I would assume sometime after February since Mongoose is still releasing P&P?

Cheers, Gary
Primary: Drakh
Secondary: Gaim
Tertiary: Centauri / Dilgar

"Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means standing alone." - Unknown
"Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do." - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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Postby Jal » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:35 pm

silashand wrote:I guess my question is, when exactly in 2009 does the license expire? I would assume sometime after February since Mongoose is still releasing P&P?

Cheers, Gary
i wonder how many people are going to splash out on that one now.
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silashand
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Postby silashand » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:17 pm

Jal wrote:i wonder how many people are going to splash out on that one now.
I'll still buy it, but I'd prefer the painting guide personally.

Cheers, Gary
Primary: Drakh
Secondary: Gaim
Tertiary: Centauri / Dilgar

"Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means standing alone." - Unknown
"Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do." - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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Postby lastbesthope » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:25 pm

silashand wrote: I'll still buy it, but I'd prefer the painting guide personally.

Cheers, Gary
Indeed, I assume the painting guide will not see the light of day now, except perhaps as a free download or S&P article series?

LBH
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Postby wkehrman » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:29 pm

silashand wrote:
Jal wrote:i wonder how many people are going to splash out on that one now.
I'll still buy it, but I'd prefer the painting guide personally.

Cheers, Gary
Oh good, I'll borrow your copy, then.

What have I told you LEG guys about fantasy/sci-fi vs historical?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

Counting on silashand's crappy die rolls since 2006.
silashand
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Postby silashand » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:29 pm

wkehrman wrote:Oh good, I'll borrow your copy, then.

What have I told you LEG guys about fantasy/sci-fi vs historical?
What, that they are much more fun than refighting battles where you know the historical outcome? ;-)

That and at least no one complains about my sci-fi miniatures not being the right shade of blue... :roll:
Counting on silashand's crappy die rolls since 2006.
I'm sure the odds will always be in your favor where my dice rolling is concerned :-).

Cheers, Gary
Primary: Drakh
Secondary: Gaim
Tertiary: Centauri / Dilgar

"Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means standing alone." - Unknown
"Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do." - Voltaire (1694-1778)
MarkNorfolk
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Postby MarkNorfolk » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:56 am

A sad time but it's happened to games I've played in the past before and if it don't pay its way we can't expect MGP to keep churning away at it.

It does mean that games I play that are MGP are down to two now - and that's occassionally.

Cheers
Mark
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Postby AdrianH » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:59 am

There's nothing preventing you from continuing to play B5:ACTA. You just don't need to spend more money on new rules, that's all. If IWM gets the licence and continues to produce miniatures, you can use the money you're not spending on rules to buy new ships instead. :)
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Postby Burger » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:16 am

AdrianH wrote:you can use the money you're not spending on rules to buy new ships instead. :)
Or beer :lol:
Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
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Burger
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Postby Burger » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:23 am

Tolwyn wrote:Some players I know start to think Mongoose betrayed them with B5:ACTA
:(
Now I know I'm not usually the one to defend Mongoose :lol:

But if the game doesn't make enough money to pay for the license then how can you expect them to continue producing it? I mean if your transport to work costed more than you earned, then you'd find a new job closer to home, right? And if you left then people at your old work would be perfectly justifyied in thinking that you had "betrayed" the company by leaving?

Put yourself in Mongoose's position and you will see that feeling betrayed is just ridiculous. Mongoose are a company, not a charity. They need to make money to pay for their bills. If the bills are higher than the income then they can do 2 things, either pull the plug completely or reduce the bills (ie become unlicensed). So which would you have them do?
Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth.

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CZuschlag
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Postby CZuschlag » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:36 am

Agreed.

If I hold anyone responsible, it's Warner Brothers, or, possibly, if he has all the rights, JMS. You have to understand exactly what the value of the product that you are giving license for is worth in order to set a fair price about it. Just that straightforward. In this case, Mongoose's operating costs if they even just sustain the game, perhaps publishing one update book and/or race a year is virtually nil. The books would sell. Maybe not a ton of them, but that should be enough. The point is the net costs of such an operation are small compared to both startup costs and revenue. The heavy lifting has already been done. It's just the cash streams may not be large.

Even then, something is better than nothing. Duh.

Unless there is another licensee out there willing to pay more for it, or some mystic project will resurrect Babylon 5's universe overnight (not bloody likely) this license pricing makes sub-zero sense. This makes it twice that they've royally messed up free money on this franchise.

I suppose I should have expected it. The incompetent or willfully ignorant rarely learn from their mistakes. That would require that they admit they're incompetent or willfully ignorant.

Inconceivable. ("I don't think that word means what you think it means." Yes, Fezzik.)
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Dilgar -- Primary
Drakh -- Secondary
Early EA -- Tertiary
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Postby McKickaha » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:44 am

Fully agree Burger.

I came to Mongoose simply as a source for B5 ship minis. (I decided to get into B5 Wars 3 months before AOG lost the licence, lucky white heather eh!).

I had 6 years of great gaming with CTA and have always had great service from Mongoose, and I thank their team, both old and new, for that.

The harsh realities of business come to us all. I have no doubts that this is the right decision for Mongoose.

I will be staying around for Babless CTA and I also fully expect to be playing and hopefully contributing to fan suported B5 CTA and for many years to come.

This is not the end.
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:11 pm

Battlefleet Gothic still has a vibrant fan community and people continue to play the game long after it got "specialised" and, as far as I'm aware, killed off entirely. I gave it up long ago simply because I have no players, but I still have my stuff and could still play it.

The same will no doubt be true for ACtA. We're all still here, we all still like B5 so there's nothing to stop us playing. I'm sure the various people who've made fan supplements and the like will continue to do so, so we'll still get "new" stuff now and again. I'll still want to finish my EA, Vree and Dilgar fleets to go with my Centauri and I still want to beat Triggy!
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Postby CZuschlag » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:35 pm

I've just (very briefly) looked at katadder's expansions, and, if we were to do it really fully and truly with massive testing and everything, there's 1-2 years of fan community work out there to be done.

Some stuff for future expansion are already out there, too! I seem to remember that Fleet Action ships for the Cascor and Hyach exist. There is at least one Ipsha model that will continue to be offered. Other ships we could release some general standards and a few suggestions and see what folks find off the shelves from other systems (some Ninjamagic stuff could stand in; so could ADB's generic-looking Hydrans; Aerotech --- ya, give some business back to Iron Wind for consideration of the remaster process!).
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Dilgar -- Primary
Drakh -- Secondary
Early EA -- Tertiary

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