Evo Zulu.. you input

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Evo Zulu.. you input

Postby soulman » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:20 pm

Now that these are coming into the shops..

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/_product ... -_Zulu_War

What about some zulu rules, i guess i need to find my starship trooper files, and the hordes etc...

Need to see the film and find out about the rifles they used, are they " slow " and need a action to reload etc..

I was thinking about ammo and the guys that used to run around with ammo boxes, maybe using the 1`s on your shooting dice, maybe once you have a equal amount of 1`s as the men in the unit you are out of ammo, a ammo bearer is needed to use a action to supply the unit..

that way the " support " unit of ammo bearers need to be close to the firing units to supply, and run around the battlefield all the time..?

Just a idea that popped into my head right now...

Also morale with the officers close by....

zulus without shields save of 6+ : fast and nimble
zulus with shields a save of 5+ : hard to see the target behind shield, even that the bullet go right though

British infantry : no save
but in hand to hand with a rifle a save of 5+ or " parry "

Thoughts on a postcard......

Alan-uk
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:03 pm

Been kinda working on it. It's just difficult to nail down unit composition since the Victorian British Army had a variety of unit formations depending on what war was being fought.
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Postby soulman » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:25 pm

Hi Hiro.. you always seem to be following me a round...!!!!!

Great minds think alike..!!
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:32 pm

Heh... maybe. I have some notes done up, with officers, rifle sections, and planned out some detachments like light field guns and even gatlin guns.
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Postby Alexb83 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:51 pm

One thing to factor in is the 'peculiar aversion to the bayonet' that the Zulus were reputed to show at engagements such as Rorkes Drift.

They were very effective weapons at dissuading charges.
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Postby soulman » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:01 pm

maybe any zulu that charges into a soldier with a rifle/bayonet the soidier strikes first
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:01 pm

Well, to be honest it's basically a spear at that point, and if you're faced with, oh, twenty of these sharp pointing things jabbing at you, you'd be adverse to getting in close.
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Postby Rick » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:22 am

Also a soldier with a bayonet on a rifle has a longer reach than a zulu with an assegai!

Given that the smallest British Army manouevre group at the time was the company, about 90 men (well, 60-90 depending on sickness and injuries), 9 NCO's and an officer, wouldn't it make more sense to scale these down by about 1:10, or 1:5, that way either 10 or 20 figures could be a company?
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Postby Hiromoon » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:42 am

Well, actually the smallest was a Section, a Company is composed of four or six sections, commanded by a number of folks. My planning is for skirmish level games, with the ability to upscale it to full blow company formations... so if you wanted to, you can recreate the first battle between the British Empire and the Zulu Nation, then the following action at Roake's Drift..
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Postby Rick » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:59 pm

You are quite right that the smallest organisational unit was the section. However, the smallest manouevre unit, one used for independant action away from the column, was typically the company. Platoons were occasionally used for small scouting missions, but this was uncommon. I was aware that the company split down into 2 platoons, each of 2 sections.

Just trying to get a feel for the period really. I was interested in expanding it into more colonial wars such as the Sudan, Boer wars, belgian congo, etc.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Postby Hiromoon » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:51 pm

Well, the idea was to put together a book titled Small Wars or something similar, allowing you to play through the Victorian era with the Sudan, Zulu, Boar, and Afghanistan was using the Victorian British military.

I went with the small unit formation because of some of the reports of the battles. You might see large unit formations on the over view, but it typically broke down to where individual sections ended up.
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Postby soulman » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:09 pm

And of course when the zulus are on top of you, you may break apart into smaller units or just one on one....
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Postby Hiromoon » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:54 pm

Exactly, so in effect you're going to have the large formations available, with the ability to break them down into their smallest fighting component.. and optionally buy them by that smallest component. This makes detachments of other units, like a section of native riflemen, possible.
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Postby Rick » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:05 am

Okay, you've almost got me sold on this idea. Just 1 thing that I think needs to be added, to make things more 'realistic' or playable. What comes out of a lot of the information about the action at Rorkes drift in particular, is the "ripple effect" that morale had in the zulu formations. By concentrating fire on 1 or 2 areas or sub-units, the British managed to stop entire charges, sometimes short of the firing line. I personally think there should be a trait to represent both the strength and weaknesses of the massed unit charge - perhaps; Irregular If a unit is fired on, it may count any units within 6" of it as being part of the same unit, for the purposes of suppression and retreat. However, if any unit within 6" is destroyed, all units within 6" must retreat a full move away from the firing unit.

Clumsy at the moment, but if, say 3 units of 10 zulus each were advancing, they could count as a single unit of 30 for suppression or retreats. However, if 1 was wiped out, the others would have to retreat backwards.

Does this make sense?
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Postby soulman » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:39 am

Hi Rick, pleased i started this post, and i have plans to watch zulu at the weekend... i was also watching alittle of sharpe last night too...

Kill a key amount and the rest will run away etc....

As for zulus i need to look at all my books, i also have the zombie one too, there is a couple of rules about reactions, and all units with so many inches react as well, also look at my starship trooper files..

Zulus was smart and had teamwork on the battlefield with command units, but i guess bloodlust at close range too...

As i said with watching sharpe ( i know its only a tv show ) if you break a units back, the rest MAY fall back too...

Instead of a unit running off, maybe just lose 1 action, as they are standing around waiting for a order to tell them what to do next, maybe surpression one unit as a knock on effect works on others with reaction range..
Saying thats for surpression you could have the following new rules ideas..

1 Dice surpression : lose 1 action, only movement react

2 Dice surpression : no reactions at all, must now full back 2x move..


Example...

Zulus unit attacking brits, first surpession, the zulus are hit heavy, and not sure have to react, they lose a action until they regroup..
When they get a second dice, they fall back 2x move say 10" ..?

Any unit within 10" of the unit with 2x surpression, automaticly gains 1 x surpression..

Anyway just a idea in head without thinking about it... back to my office work for now...?

Alan-Uk
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Postby Rick » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:06 pm

I know what you mean, but it's difficult to define it in terms for BF:Evo. There has to be some sort of mechanism that would allow for what actually happened, the British firing at them as they charged in, inflicting enough casualties that a charge by 100+ zulu's could be broken by about 30 riflemen. Under existing Evo rules you have to almost wipe out each one.

Hmm, yes. The Zulu army was very organised. The Impi's were broken down into units of around 400-600 men, under the command of a seasoned veteran officer, these were further broken down into 10 "companies" (forgot the zulu term), each under the command of an officer. This "company" was also split into 2 "wings", each with 2 officers. This was an extremely efficient, tactically flexible and highly organised system, allowing for the smallest unit to be around 10-15 zulus plus an officer. No wonder they were the top military in Southern Africa until the European's hit them.

Their strengths and weaknesses were that their morale was highly variable, depending on circumstances, like any irregular warband or army. There are cases of entire reserve impi's rushing into battle prematurely, being unable to be held back. This was recognised by some zulu commanders, there are anecdotes of zulu reserves having to sit with their backs towards the fighting (usually in a big gully or behind a hill!), so that their morale would not be affected by any success or failure.

I agree that the existing rules are fine for the european armies of the time, but something else is needed for the irregular armies that they faced.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Postby Hiromoon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:49 pm

How about cascading suppression? Where any unit within 10" of the unit suffering double suppression (i.e. enough fire power to give two suppression dice to each model) looses one action?
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Postby soulman » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:28 pm

Rick you seem to know alot about it.. for me i will be watching zulu at the weekend...!!!

Hiro.. pleased you liked my idea.... :-)
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Postby Rick » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:16 pm

Actually, I had a couple of the Osprey books, loved watching Zulu and need to borrow my dad's book "The washing of the spears", lot of info. in there.

However, came across this site while I was looking for more info on exactly how a british company split down: http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/potpourri/zulu_attack.htm gives a good picture of how the charge of a zulu induna could have been stopped.

Btw, I know the basic org of a British company in the zulu war, but need a bit more info; each section of 20 men was led by a sergeant and, I think, a corporal, but if 4 sections were in a company (2 platoons), was there a "command" section with Lt. colour sgt. musician and, what, a couple of runners? Any help?
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Postby Hiromoon » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:29 am

Check out Zulu Dawn too.

As for oganization, Not entirely sure.
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