WAW=Wow!

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
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Tank Destroyer
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WAW=Wow!

Postby Tank Destroyer » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:56 pm

I am a new member to the board and would just like to say "Hi".

I have played WWII wargames in 1/72nd for about thirty years and have tried a lot (I mean a-lot) of different rules over the years. For the past few years I have gotten into other types of games that focus on point based armies and quick & simple play. This kind of rule system apeals to me in my fourth decade on this planet.

I have a strong interest in WWII; a fact that I owe to my Dad who fought in the 705th tank destroyer battalion (M-18 Hellcats) in France, Belgium, germany, and Austria. (thus the tank destroyer avatar and handle).

With all this I am very pleased with WAW. Thank you Agis for a good set of rules that concentrate on the game and lets me push around my 20mm figures for a couple of hours without obtaining a headache in the process.

After playing a couple of battles I am wondering one thing:
We found mortars to be VERY powerful! Being able to fire almost anywhere on the board without having a line of sight and negating cover we found to be huge advantages. How do folks handle this? I was thinking of including a two-man spotting team that must have LOS to a target unit before the mortar could fire at it. The mortar team would either have to have LOS themselves or the spotter team would have to have LOS. In this way a Mortar could be blinded if it was not exposed.

Otherwise: I had a good time and liked a lot about the game. I especialy like the engagements and setup matrix.

TD
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Postby Stormrider » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:02 pm

Facing the same problem in Modern combat from underslung grenade launchers used as mortars I can only offer 2 pieces of advice

1 - Spread your troops out, it's the only real effective defense against artillery fire.

2 - If it works the same as in MC you choose where it deviates as the defender, be careful of the direction you choose and remember it can overshoot in either direction (rolling lower or higher than you) so possibly risk 1 or 2 men rather than your squad and instead of directing it away, direct it across your squad if it looks safer on the whole.
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Rabidchild
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Postby Rabidchild » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:12 pm

Welcome to the boards, and thanks to your father for his service. (And indeed to all service men and women everywhere.)

In the games I've played, taking out enemy artillery becomes an objective just as important as the ones from the scenario. :) I've seen other people houserule that the target point must be visible to at least one unit in your army, and I like that idea myself. (Of course I'd also allow troops to take advantage of cover against artillery as well.)

If you get a chance, drop by http://www.evocommand.com/ and take a look around.
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Postby Wolfhound » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:25 pm

Howdy back at'cha. :D

This is definately my favorite WW2 ruleset. It's pretty much "done" (Agis and the gang did good work) though I've found that making house rules to suit individual group tastes is the norm rather than the exception.

This is no problem for friendly games amongst friends and league play based around that so it's not a complaint per se; it'll just keep the game from really catching on as a "competitive" game ... which may not be a bad thing ... except for those types of games typically have better sales which keeps the game alive longer. :lol:

Welcome! Good to have ya.
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Postby non com » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:09 am

hi tank hunter
your'e right this is one of the coolest WWII rules sets out there
usually it takes 2 or 3 shots in our games to score a hits with mortars or artillery so they don't really dominate to much
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Agis
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Postby Agis » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:44 am

Welcome aboard and thanks for the positive feedback.
:)
WW II also has a special meaning for me. My Dad was 16 in 1945 and was trained on the Panzerfaust for the battle of Berlin. Luckily enough for him it was over before his life was wasted.
An uncle of mine got his ear shot away in Hollad, but only after a comrade yelled at him and he turned his head a split second before the shot hits him, without turning the shot would have hit his forehead...


Anyway - As far as Mortars and other Artillery weapons are concerned try all the above advice and try out the following Add On (aka "houserule").

P. 21 - Artillery Weapons
Impact Point and Inaccuracy
Add the following sentence after the 1st paragraph:
The initial impact point has to be within line of sight of at least one friendly model when the Artillery weapon is fired.
cheers and keep on gaming, Agis
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Postby hithero » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:53 am

In addition to Agis' suggestion as we found mortars firing direct still to powerful, we say that the must use the Artillery Trait deviation method for any shooting AND if the mortars operators do not have line of sight themselves 2D10 are rolled for the outward bound scatter and 1D10 back.
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SnowDog
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Postby SnowDog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:50 am

From the point of view of a former mortar team leader (and having spent most of my training as part of FO squad) I would say that a mortar team needs either LOS, an FO with LOS or prearranged points where to shoot.

So, it is actually possible to shoot at the target that no-one sees but the timing is the problem :)
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Tank Destroyer
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Postby Tank Destroyer » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:28 pm

Thanks everyone,

Your feedback was exactly what I was hoping for. I am looking forward to adding house rules for our next game. SnowDog, your advice from experience was very helpful.

Agis, I admire the way that feel about house rules and gamers input... from my experience it is not a usual response from game designers. Your focus on the "fun & fast" element of play is clear.
It was very interesting to me to read a little about your family history and your Dad's part in WWII. We have somewhat of a connection in that my father was actually born in Germany in 1926. My Grandparents (Oppa & Omma) came from Altenschwand, Bodenwohr, and immigrated to the U.S. when Dad was about 3 years old. He went back to Germany to visit during the thirties and still keeps close communication with relatives back home even today. He was drafted in 1944 into the Army and, as I mentioned, served in M-18 Hellcats in the 3rd Army. I can only guess at what it must have felt like to drive within 5 Kilometers of the house he was born in and fighting on the opposite side than all his relatives (he is an only child and the only one in America)! One of my favorite pictures is of Dad, in uniform, with his arm around my Great Grandfather Huber in front of the blacksmith shop where Dad was born.

Anyway, my apologies for the elongated family history but I mention this also because I know there are people who might be interested in WWII history. My Dad is 83 and one of the growing few of that generation. His best friend is also in his eighties and is an immigrant from Austria. Ernst, Dads friend, flew for the Luftwaffe and has many stories. He flew a JU-88 over the arctic circle, flew HS-129s in Tunisia, got shot down twice, and was in a Fallschirmjager unit during the Battle of the Bulge. :shock:
Obviously, both of these men have incredible stories and carry information that is invaluable to us. So..... if anyone has any questions concerning equipment, battles, or anything else to ask... I would be happy to be a go between. Time is ticking away.

Thanks for the warm welcome, and... sorry for the long post.

-TD
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Agis
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Postby Agis » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:24 pm

Very interesting family history. And THANKS for the long post.
IMO this is what makes the difference between a history based game and a fantasy or pure SF game.
It is easier to connect to real live in these games, it somehow gives more meaning and depth to a game. It also encourages you to think and read more about actual history, about the motivation of the forces involved etc.

But it still had to be fun, fast and furious, or? :wink:
cheers and keep on gaming, Agis
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Postby Sgt. Scream » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:10 pm

@Tank Destroyer

Bodenwöhr, Altenschwand you say? Damn - your Grandparents were living not even 75km away from me :shock:
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http://smallscaleoperations.blogspot.com/
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Tank Destroyer
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Postby Tank Destroyer » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:54 pm

Sgt. Scream,

Yup... thats the place. We still have plenty of family in that area. Also Burglegenfeld, Scwanddorf, and Regensburg. It is a kleinen world!

I once met a girl at a party... no its not THAT story... who made a toast with Jaegermeister that was VERY local to Bavaria. I had only ever heard that toast from my dad, granddad, or German relatives. When I talked to her I was at first confused by her very Irish name. In the ensuing conversation I found out that her maiden name was indeed German and that she had travelled to Germany before. When I asked her where she had travelled she mentioned her relatives in a little town that I probably had never heard of... Altenschand. I nearly dropped my beer! After the fog cleared I remembered the last name being the same as the family buried next to my grandparents here in the U.S., her grandparents and mine were from the same small town in Germany and had grown up a couple of houses away from each other. The population of Altenscwhand is only a few hundred! What are the odds of meeting someone at a small gathering, itn the middle of nowhere, in one of the smallest states in the U.S., who shares a common heritage! :shock:

... anyway.

TD
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Postby Mr Evil » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:45 pm

doesnt this normaly end up with a wedding ???? or has my gf made me watch to many slushy movies !!!!
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Lord David the Denied
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:02 pm

I think she might have, Mr. Evil, but on the other hand, it's a hell of an opening to ask the girl out... :wink:
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Postby Sgt. Scream » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:11 pm

Schwandorf? My uncle lives there.
Burglengenfeld and Regensburg are also close.

I know a lot of Americans whose families are from Germany. I never met one who is a "Oberpfälzer". :wink:
Scream's 20mm modern military wargaming blog....
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Shadow4ce
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Postby Shadow4ce » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:44 pm

Tank Destroyer, welcome to your new addiction.

You are very correct about Agis (and Matt as well). They are two of the most open-minded game designers I've ever had the pleasure of discussing rules with. (I just hope my input for WaW Pacific was helpful before a work-related injury curtailed my further play-test involvement).

Anyway, TD, you'll find great information here and at Evo Command's Forums as well. Both communities are active and passionate about this great game, and you'll find the majority of folks who play are quite helpful to new players.
- Shadow4ce
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Rabidchild
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Postby Rabidchild » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:55 am

Knowing your line of work, I sincerely hope you are alright there Shadow4ce. Best wishes for a clean recovery.
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Shadow4ce
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Postby Shadow4ce » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:34 pm

Rabidchild wrote:Knowing your line of work, I sincerely hope you are alright there Shadow4ce. Best wishes for a clean recovery.
Thank you RC. Torn Rotator Cuff, and the wife was a little overwhelmed with yardwork to worry about typing for me on forums and emails, lol.

Anyway, I'm fine now other than a stiff shoulder when it rains, hehe. Oh, and a slightly different prioritization of my free time now that I've "Seen the Elephant." 8)
- Shadow4ce
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Rabidchild
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Postby Rabidchild » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:47 pm

Cheers, glad to hear it. :)
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Postby soulman » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:27 pm

With mortars, you can have a line of site rule with the firing team, or somebody with a radio calling it down, or just picking a point on the map and keep firing...

Since you and you the enemy player both roll dice to see where it lands, mix them around to get the right feel
IE/ d10/d10 d10/d6 / 2d10/d10 etc...

Maybe after you hit the right stop, following shoot actions are better to hit, then going wide.. ?

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