Gaim in P&P

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stepan.razin
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Postby stepan.razin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:59 pm

If the Narn want a fleet carrier and/or a better assault ship, how about listing something the fleet would give up to gain such capability. I am sorry, but "Because we dont get one" is not convincing enough argument.
Foxmeister
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Postby Foxmeister » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:09 pm

stepan.razin wrote:If the Narn want a fleet carrier and/or a better assault ship, how about listing something the fleet would give up to gain such capability. I am sorry, but "Because we dont get one" is not convincing enough argument.
Wouldn't it be nice if people actually read the thread to determine the *context* of a comment? I brought up the T'Loth purely to demonstrate that the Gain Assault ship isn't bad at all when compared to its peers. Hiff added some comments which I believe should be taken in the context of the original post which mentioned a carrier without Fleet Carrier - his asking for one was probably just illustrating the fact that the Narn don't get one full stop.

Regards,

Dave
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Postby stepan.razin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:27 pm

Foxmeister wrote:
stepan.razin wrote:If the Narn want a fleet carrier and/or a better assault ship, how about listing something the fleet would give up to gain such capability. I am sorry, but "Because we dont get one" is not convincing enough argument.
Wouldn't it be nice if people actually read the thread to determine the *context* of a comment? I brought up the T'Loth purely to demonstrate that the Gain Assault ship isn't bad at all when compared to its peers. Hiff added some comments which I believe should be taken in the context of the original post which mentioned a carrier without Fleet Carrier - his asking for one was probably just illustrating the fact that the Narn don't get one full stop.

Regards,

Dave
This was a Gaim related thread. Give it a few days, and it will be the "injustice against the Narn fleet" thread. I am just pre-emptying the whining.
... just illustrating the fact that the Narn don't get one full stop.
See, its starting already.
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Postby Ripple » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:31 pm

Actually its commenting on design...

Chris is dead wrong in saying that fleet gaps are the designers perogative, but balance is ours. The flat reality is neither is ours, the designer may do what he wants. Our perogatives are to complain, to buy or not to buy, that is all.

I personally feel just fine complaining about gaps that don't make any sense from a military standpoint. Even in some cases I might buy a economic reason (in the fluff) for passing on a specific type but not just that a race is mentally incapable of conceiving of the need, not if that race has managed to carve out a interstellar empire.

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Postby Methos5000 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:39 am

Da Boss wrote: Now it has also been mentioned before that the Pak should never have a Scout - but no reasons why - it seems somewhat arbitary (which is of course allowable to the designer :wink: ) asto my mind the pak ar equite liikely to build ships to look for stuff - it may be a big lumbering monsterosity full of pak and with relitvely basic sensors and a big hold to keep the stuff in or a more subtle conversion of a Drazi / Brakiri hull with few weapons and good sensors.
I suppose it could be argued that maybe the pak'ma'ra do have a scout but it sits on a very expensive very rare ship that they won't risk in a combat zone.......but then EA uses the Explorer and Psi-Corp uses their Motherships in combat and throws that argument right out the window.
G'Kar: I was doing fine until you showed up with that .. thing in hand.
Marcus: It's a Minbari fighting pike, several hundred years old. You are just jealous because you don't have one. Bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me.
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Postby Greg Smith » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:13 am

A lot of ACTA battles can be described as 'What if?'

What if the EA used one of their 6 explorers in battle?
What if the ISA could fight the Dilgar?
What if the Psi Corps engaged in open combat?

Feasability and likelyhood can be stretched very far indeed.
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:18 am

Greg Smith wrote:A lot of ACTA battles can be described as 'What if?'
And the most important one, "what if both sides turn up with equivalently powered fleets?"
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Postby H » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:22 am

it was not intended as a whinge about the narn, more an illustartion that asking for a fleet carrier at level X, when you already have fleet carriers and fighters coming out of your nose, is a bit whiny when some fleets don't have a fleet carrier. The gaim are already tough, and you demand more? next,the ISA players will be damanding the titanostar, dodge 3 on an armageddon hull with 18 dice of TD beam. . .
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Postby CZuschlag » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:30 am

Don't give 'em ideas, Hiff.

The good news is that we are getting some very legitimate issues threshed out slowly (Space Stations being a biggie, but also Fusion Missiles, Hunting Pack, Drazi Attack Run, the Xaar, Narn CBD, and the Abbai Shield Regens); the bad is some serious shipgreed is getting tossed out there, too.

For example, Da Boss is starting to notice that his originally light-fluff Vree Extractions Beams are becoming full-fledged and unpriced weapon systems against certain ships in the game.
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Postby Da Boss » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:44 am

Yeah its odd that as its usually we fans that can be guilty of initially overdoing (holds hand up) things with new stuff, so having a minor suggestion massively upgraded is quite amusing..............

:lol:

(but would prefer it back down again :wink: )
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:57 am

Da Boss wrote:Yeah its odd that as its usually we fans that can be guilty of initially overdoing (holds hand up) things with new stuff
Its not just fans though, Matt sometimes seriously overdoes things at first too! I think it was katadder who playtested the original pre-release Gaim, 5 points of battle easily beat 5 points of WAR of another race?
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Postby katadder » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:02 pm

yeah that was gaim against minbari and the gaim didnt lose a ship either.
and you should have seen the 1st draft hyach, wow they were crazy.
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Postby Da Boss » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:13 pm

Greg Smith wrote:The only changes you will see in P&P are a couple of clarifications on Klikkitaks and the return of the missing flight computer to the Shruuta.

Why did the assault ship lose hull 6? Even without 10 flights, it is a good ship. There aren't many raid ships that sport 10 AD of double damage beams. It is a great ship for getting in the middle of the enemy formation and blasting away with all 4 arcs.
Hate to say this but having just glanced through thw Gaim rules and presuming I am reading the right version the Assault ship does now have hull 6? :?

Skrunnka-class Assault Ship Raid
Designed to batter through defences and launch shuttles filled with vicious assault drones, be it at an enemy ship or enemy-held world, the Skrunnka is tough and can weather the most devastating attacks. It lacks a wide range of offensive weaponry, leading the Queens to wield its legion of assault drones as they would any other ranged system.

Speed: 8
Turn: 1/45o
Hull: 6
Damage: 38/7
Crew: 50/10
Troops: 16
Craft: 2 Klikkita flights, 8 Breaching Pod flights
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Carrier 3, Interceptors 2, Jump Engine, Shuttles 8
In Service: 2255+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 F 4 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 A 2 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 P 2 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 S 2 Beam, Double Damage
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Postby skavendan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:34 pm

Yeah with all round beams lol and they say it isn't overly cheesy...
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Postby katadder » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:52 pm

well its not, they are only 12" range and 2AD in those arcs. average hit is 2, so average 4 damage. I am sure a nova can manage that in its arcs, and a teshlan manages 3 average with mini-beams.
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Postby noobdelux » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:55 pm

Da Boss wrote:
Greg Smith wrote:The only changes you will see in P&P are a couple of clarifications on Klikkitaks and the return of the missing flight computer to the Shruuta.

Why did the assault ship lose hull 6? Even without 10 flights, it is a good ship. There aren't many raid ships that sport 10 AD of double damage beams. It is a great ship for getting in the middle of the enemy formation and blasting away with all 4 arcs.
Hate to say this but having just glanced through thw Gaim rules and presuming I am reading the right version the Assault ship does now have hull 6? :?

Skrunnka-class Assault Ship Raid
Designed to batter through defences and launch shuttles filled with vicious assault drones, be it at an enemy ship or enemy-held world, the Skrunnka is tough and can weather the most devastating attacks. It lacks a wide range of offensive weaponry, leading the Queens to wield its legion of assault drones as they would any other ranged system.

Speed: 8
Turn: 1/45o
Hull: 6
Damage: 38/7
Crew: 50/10
Troops: 16
Craft: 2 Klikkita flights, 8 Breaching Pod flights
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Carrier 3, Interceptors 2, Jump Engine, Shuttles 8
In Service: 2255+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 F 4 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 A 2 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 P 2 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Gatling Laser 12 S 2 Beam, Double Damage
it got hull 6 in the book, but in the revised list it should be hull 5.
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Postby Da Boss » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:59 pm

yeah I know its in the book but I was looking at the playtest document :? Unless I have the wrong one - anyone else able to check?

thanks
stepan.razin
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Postby stepan.razin » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:16 pm

skavendan wrote:Yeah with all round beams lol and they say it isn't overly cheesy...
With 12" range, I dont think it scares anybody.
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Postby skavendan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:19 pm

Its faster than your average raid ship hull 6 interceptors full of breaching pods. You would have to be stupid to willing go without 12"
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Postby CZuschlag » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:37 pm

It's fast enough that you may not have a choice.

At Hull 6, this ship is out of bounds and needs to be corrected, FAST.
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Drakh -- Secondary
Early EA -- Tertiary

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