Playtest Rules Space Stations

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Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:32 pm

Some ideas for racial core space stations
ISA: Af to become AAF, Gain Adaptive Armour -40% damage
Patrol 24
Skirmish 36
Raid 54
Battle 90
War 150

Narn: Loose Interceptors Gain 1 Armour (+1 to hull)

Centari: Give it the Guardian Array ability same as fleet rules (gains Escort)
Patrol -1HP
Skirmish -1HP
Raid -2HP
Battle -2HP
War -3HP

Vorlon: Af to become AAF, Gain Adaptive Armour -40% damage, Gain Self-repair at HP cost.
Patrol 24 D3SR -1HP
Skirmish 36 D6SR -1HP
Raid 54 D6SR -2HP
Battle 90 D6SR -3HP
War 150 D6SR -4HP

Drakh: Loose Af and Int, Gain GEG, (maybe a 5 or 10% dam increaseto balance off lose of defensive weaponry?)
Patrol GEG 1
Skirmish GEG 1
Raid GEG 2 -2HP
Battle GEG 3 HUGE HANGER 1 -3HP
War GEG 4 HUGE HANGER 1 -4HP

Shadow: Loose AF and INT, gain shields and Self Repair (Possible 10% dam decrease?)
Patrol 5/? SRd3 -1HP
Skirmish 10/? SRd6 -1HP
Raid 15/? SRd6 -2HP
Battle 20/? SRd6 -3HP
War 25/? SRd6 -4HP

Gaim: AF to AAF, gain a Hanger at HP modifier
Patrol -1HP
Skirmish -1HP
Raid -2HP
Battle -3HP
War -4HP

Vree: Loose INT gain an increase to AF
Patrol +1AF
Skirmish +1AF
Raid +2AF
Battle +3AF
War +4AF

Abbai: Loose INT gain Shields (probabley a -HP modifier)
Patrol 5/2
Skirmish 8/3
Raid 10/3
Battle 15/6
War 20/8

Drazi: Loose INT Gain troops and breaching pods??

Some Traits have been deliberatly left basic so they can be added to others have been enhanced to a racial possible max (ok i admit it was easier to do it like that)!
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Da Boss
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Postby Da Boss » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:54 pm

Doing some good Work here sir!

Any word from the Powers That Be ? Is this helpful to them?

Whilst we are all throwing ideas into the mix on many subjects and threads this a is a fundemental redesign (which the whole thing desperatly needs) of the rules.

some thoughts:

I presume the Vorlon station loses Interceptors, as probably should the ISA. The Gaim don't have AAF anymore do they?

but impressive start :)
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Postby Grunvald » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:07 pm

(Gives himself metal clought!)

Was using Fleet Book for idea on fleet traits, forgot Gaim had been updated!

DOH!

How this for Gaim then with no AAF

Gaim: gain a Hanger but loose say 5%dm on basic core

Vorlon yes loose INT!

ISA: INT well being as ISA is Minbari/Vorlon/Earth tech was going to leave them on a space station kind of made sense, and Self-repair at a HP modifier!

Yeah would be nice to know if the "Powers that be" are liking or not!
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Postby Grunvald » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:18 pm

Abbai: Loose INT gain Shields
Patrol 5/2
Skirmish 8/3
Raid 8/3
Battle 8/3
War 8/3

Additional Shield Modules can be purchased at 2 HP up to max of 4 additional modules. 1st/3rd giving 10/5/0 and 5/2, 2nd/4th giving 10/5/0 and 5/3.

Drazi: Loose INT gain 4 Troops and 2 Breaching pods at each level of station core (ie 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 troops. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 Breaching pods.).

Shadow: Loose AF and INT, gain shields and Self Repair, -10% Damage.
Patrol 5/5 SRd3 -1HP
Skirmish 10/5 SRd6 -1HP
Raid 10/5 SRd6 -2HP
Battle 10/5 SRd6 -3HP
War 10/5 SRd6 -4HP

Shield Module: Additional Shield Modules can be purchased at 2HP per modules each giving 10/5/0 and 5/D6. Up to a max of 30 shields may be purchased!
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Postby Grunvald » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:42 pm

Minbari: Point Defence Module. Each module will add 10/5/0 and add +2 AAF

Narn: Hardened Module limit to 2 max

Drakh: Additional Geg modules may be purchased up to max of GEG 4
Patrol 1HP
Skirmish 2HP
Raid 3HP
Battle 4HP
War NA

[quote="Silvereye"][b]
[b]Command Module[/b] [3hp]
I'd split this into two Modules, a Command Module and a 'Scout' Module

[i]COMMAND MODULE (2hp) - Each Command Module will increase the Damage scores of the Core by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the Command +1 and the Fleet Carrier traits. Each subsequent Command Module will increase the Command trait by +1.[/i]

[i]SENSOR MODULE (1hp)
A Sensor Module beefs up the normal sensor suite present on the station, adding more powerful sensors and faster tracking systems to provide up to the second information of ship movements near the station while deep space relays monitor for any hint of enemy scouts.

A Sensor Module will increase the Damage scores of the Core by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the Scout Trait.[/i]

The sensor module means that you can build those fluff-y Listening Outposts without having to purchase Command or Fleet Carrier facilities.
[/quote]

Love this but i'd split the fleet carrier off and limit the command mod to 4 max!

Carrier Module: 2 HP. Adds the Fleet carrier Trait and 10/5/0 also adds an additional hanger to the 1st one added to the station (ie if you add a hanger you get an additional 1 for free you dont get 1 with the Carrier trait!).
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Here is what I came up with...

Postby ATN082268 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:58 pm

I tried the Space Station construction rules and here is my first try: a Minbari Star Fortress class space station.

Since the weapons have no listed arc, I assume the weapons have a 360 degree arc of fire. Also, if you buy 2 armor modules, I assumed the armor is increased by 2 from base and the damage thresholds are quadrupled from base; In addition I added the bonus damage points after the armor module modification. Personally, I think the fighter modules cost too much. Also, having the interceptors stripped out when you get the advanced Anti-fighter will probably result in people just getting the standard point defense module.

Minbari Star Fortress

Hull: 6
Damage: 1050/ 520/ 240
Troops: 50
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station.

This design is equipped with 2 Armor Modules, 1 Advanced Neutron Laser Module, 2 Fusion Cannon Modules and 1 Stealth Module.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
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Re: Here is what I came up with...

Postby lastbesthope » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:20 pm

ATN082268 wrote: Since the weapons have no listed arc, I assume the weapons have a 360 degree arc of fire.
The playtest deocs clearly state that all weapons on Stations have the Turret arc, you must have missed that.

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Postby Da Boss » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:31 pm

hmm so a war level station has 1000+ damage and silly range guns on a turret - worrying.................plus stealth and interceptors............. :cry:
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Postby noobdelux » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:22 pm

well the only way to kill those stations is to get #12 of those crits that move the space station against planet/board edge
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Postby Da Boss » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:31 pm

or another even bigger station! :roll: :wink:
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Re: Here is what I came up with...

Postby ATN082268 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:58 pm

lastbesthope wrote:
ATN082268 wrote: Since the weapons have no listed arc, I assume the weapons have a 360 degree arc of fire.
The playtest deocs clearly state that all weapons on Stations have the Turret arc, you must have missed that.

LBH
Yeah, I missed it :)

Sincerely,

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My second try...

Postby ATN082268 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:20 pm

Here is my second try at the space station rules (and these rules are fun !!!):

Narn Star Fortress

Hull: 6
Damage: 1310/ 655/ 310
Troops: 50
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station.

This design is equipped with 2 Armor Modules, 2 Hardened Modules, 1 Energy Mine Module, 1 Ion Torpedo Module, 1 Heavy Laser Cannon Module.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
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Postby Grunvald » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:23 am

[quote="noobdelux"]well the only way to kill those stations is to get #12 of those crits that move the space station against planet/board edge[/quote]

Still think that the station moving 1" is a pile of poo!
(read previous post's!)

And ok it moves into a planet! then what it still there although logically it should crash, being as there are no rules for it, it will still be there!!!
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Re: Here is what I came up with...

Postby Grunvald » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30 am

[quote="ATN082268"]Minbari Star Fortress

Hull: 6
Damage: 1050/ 520/ 240
Troops: 50
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station.

This design is equipped with 2 Armor Modules, 1 Advanced Neutron Laser Module, 2 Fusion Cannon Modules and 1 Stealth Module.[/quote]

either i've miss read the armour module or my calculations are in error but it says you can only double the starting Damage score which is 250/125/60 which would give you 500/250/120, 1 Neutron is +10/5/0, 2 neutron is 10/5/0 (twice) and stealth is 10/5/0 giving you a total of 540/270/120 not 1000+.

you dont get to double the starting then add a 2nd double to it just the original starting damage!!

Being honest i'd missed the double bit till now think it not needed getting +1 armour and a damage bonus of say 30/15/0 should be more than ample to balance off the advantage of getting a hull bonus!!
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Postby Greg Smith » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:56 am

Currently the armour modules are a very cheap way to increase damage, especially compared to habiation modules.

For a way station, 1HP will get you +40 damage and +1hull, whereas a habitation module will get you +30 for the same cost.

For a star fortress 6HP will get you +250, whereas 6 habitation modules will only get you +180.

I have suggested to Matt that he reduce the increase in damage, or increase the HP cost of armour.
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Postby Grunvald » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:24 am

[quote="Greg Smith"]I have suggested to Matt that he reduce the increase in damage, or increase the HP cost of armour.[/quote]

I think that an increase in cost would be unadvisable due to such low HP points on the lower stations.

But a decrease in Damage is most definatley required! Stick to a low 10/5/0 cause your already getting a boost to your hull which unless you are using beam weapons makes it harder for you to take damage, so having a HUGE damage increase just doesn't make any sense!!!
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I'm not sure...

Postby ATN082268 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:02 pm

Grunvald wrote:
ATN082268 wrote:Minbari Star Fortress

Hull: 6
Damage: 1050/ 520/ 240
Troops: 50
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station.

This design is equipped with 2 Armor Modules, 1 Advanced Neutron Laser Module, 2 Fusion Cannon Modules and 1 Stealth Module.
either i've miss read the armour module or my calculations are in error but it says you can only double the starting Damage score which is 250/125/60 which would give you 500/250/120, 1 Neutron is +10/5/0, 2 neutron is 10/5/0 (twice) and stealth is 10/5/0 giving you a total of 540/270/120 not 1000+.

you dont get to double the starting then add a 2nd double to it just the original starting damage!!

Being honest i'd missed the double bit till now think it not needed getting +1 armour and a damage bonus of say 30/15/0 should be more than ample to balance off the advantage of getting a hull bonus!!

Did you take into account that I used *two* armor modules? I'm not sure if it was the right way to do it but I used the modifiers for damage for the armor modules and then added in the bonuses for damage like from weapons and the like. In the case of two armor modules, I quadrupled the starting damage.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
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Postby Da Boss » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:06 pm

I think it is important to decide if the Space Stations are intended to be used in pck up games / Tournaments (as is suggested in the present rules) or just special scenarios as they are presently massively unbalanced for the former.

I think that the following would help if this is to continue being the idea:

The present ideas by Grunvald are a good start - especially making the stations mroe race specific - removing interceptors from stations constructed by the Vorlons, Shadows and Minbari for instacce. The hardpoints by type is also a step forward.

Damage scores - these are just too high coupled with the auto repair of crits, and range of the wepaons. My first thought is too either halve the present starting scores (prefered) or remove the damage bonuses granted by add on modules.

Individual modules: (if the half start taken)

Armour - the upgrade of the hull should be enough in itself - remove the doubling ability.

Point defence - make it different fro Eldar / Ancient races so Minbari and Vorlons get AAF (but no interceptors), Shadows get a accurate minibeam (low range and AD - say 1 per PL and 2" plus PL in range)

Stealth / Adaptive/ Shields - make the size dependant on size of the sation it hides / protects

Range of guns - if the guns are not be in arcs (and I don't really see why they could not be) I don't think any station should have gins more than 35£ - the max Range (IIRC) of normal weapons. The sheer range of the present systems is too much for pick up games/ tourneys -52" triple damage precise :roll: who cares if it does not move - it can reach out across the table and does not care about arcs...............esp in tourneys / scenarios with little or no terrain.

Hangers - presently you can get way too many fighters compared to a normal PL point: eg:

a Patrol level station (1pt) can get me 4 Rutarians (which don't give away VP) on a durable platform (Or 4 Black Omegas, or 12 Star Snakes bascially double what you should get) halve the fighters would be a start but its still better than buying them seperatly AND you get a station.

Huge Hangers - on a Patrol level station - just no. Needs to be restricted to higher lvl PL - maybe one at raid and 2 at higher?

Despite this I love the idea - but its presently busted.............
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Re: I'm not sure...

Postby Grunvald » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:20 pm

[quote="ATN082268"][quote="Grunvald"][quote="ATN082268"]Minbari Star Fortress

Hull: 6
Damage: 1050/ 520/ 240
Troops: 50
Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 6, Immobile, Interceptors 10, Space Station.

This design is equipped with 2 Armor Modules, 1 Advanced Neutron Laser Module, 2 Fusion Cannon Modules and 1 Stealth Module.[/quote]

either i've miss read the armour module or my calculations are in error but it says you can only double the starting Damage score which is 250/125/60 which would give you 500/250/120, 1 Neutron is +10/5/0, 2 neutron is 10/5/0 (twice) and stealth is 10/5/0 giving you a total of 540/270/120 not 1000+.

you dont get to double the starting then add a 2nd double to it just the original starting damage!!

Being honest i'd missed the double bit till now think it not needed getting +1 armour and a damage bonus of say 30/15/0 should be more than ample to balance off the advantage of getting a hull bonus!![/quote]


Did you take into account that I used *two* armor modules? I'm not sure if it was the right way to do it but I used the modifiers for damage for the armor modules and then added in the bonuses for damage like from weapons and the like. In the case of two armor modules, I quadrupled the starting damage.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris[/quote]

Yes i had noticed that you had taken two armour modules, but the modules reads thus:
Each Armour Module will add +1 to the Hull of a Core, and double its starting Damage scores.
Badley worded i grant you, but it says nothing about quaduplein scores or adding doubles together, it only gives it as "Double" which the way i understand most of the ACTA rules is that you only apply something once.

Also it does say starting damage, so 250 doubled is still 500 no matter how may armour modules you take!
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Postby Grunvald » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:51 pm

Weaponry Modules:

Everyone seems to be disliking the idea that stations are having increase range firepower, and as Da Boss "who cares if it does not move - it can reach out across the table and does not care about arcs".

Now the idea of an increased range on a station gun makes sense to me, being on a more "stable" platform makes a gun generally more accurate which can give it more range, but i agree that 50% is probabley too much of an increase, especially on the BIGGER multiple damage weapons, but on the shorter ranger defencive weapons a 50% increase seems ok.

How about Short range weaponry (ie up about 12") is increased by 50%, while longer range weaponry has its range increased by about a quarter!

Minbari:
Fusion Cannon 22" (increase of 25% 4")
Improved Neutron Laser 45" (increase of 25% 9")

EA
Missile rack Range 37" (increase 7" 25% instead of 15)
Medium Pulse cannon 15" (increase of 50%, 5" increase)

Shadow:
Molecular Slicer 30" (increase of 25% 6")
Phasing Pulse Cannon 12" (increase 50% 4")

As for fighters its either limit the number of hangers you can have or for each flight of fighters killed earn VP's, being as a station is a lot bigger than a ship and is going to have more options than a normal vessel i'd go with the VP's as a counter ballance. Cause the more we restrict the options ppl can take the more we are going to end up facing the same station time and time again!
Last edited by Grunvald on Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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