Playtest Rules Space Stations

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Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:13 pm

katadder has come up with a very workable Adaptive Armour for the Vorlons.

For those who havent seen it
Adaptive Armour Module (Defensive Module) Varies
Using ancient vorlon arts this station is sheathed in living adaptive armour able to adapt to deflect most of the damage directed at it.

Each Adaptive Armouor Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +10/+5/+0. It will also add the adaptive armour trait. The Hardpoints of the Adaptive Armour Module will vary according to the Core it is being attached to; Way Station – 1 Hardpoints, Colony Station –2 Hardpoints, Border Station – 3 Hardpoints, Battle Station – 4 Hardpoints, Star Fortress – 5 Hardpoints.

This was designed to balance off the fact that the shadows had shields and bio-tech (self repair) but the vorlons only had the bio-tech!

Unfortunatley the shields cost 4 HP's and under his own balancing rules it cant be used untill Raid level so to balance it out hows this for a comprimise

Shields
Patrol 5/5 1HP
Skirmish 10/5 2HP
Raid 20/D6+5 3HP
Battle 25/2D6+5 4HP
War 30/3D6+5 5HP
Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:26 pm

Vorlon and Shadow Bio-Tech, to make it a bit more balanced and more accessable to the lower level stations how is this:

Bio-Tech
Patrol D3 1HP
Skirmish D6 2HP
Raid 2D6 3HP
Battle 3D6 4HP
War 4D6 5HP
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Postby katadder » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:39 pm

well the shields could be balanced over levels but didnt want to change what was in play. although having set shields would cost a set amount as it stops the same amount of damage.
on the self repair its the same sort of thing as shields. 2d6 damage is 2d6 damage no matter what size ship its on. admittedly a war level station will be able to make use of it longer, but then the same can be said of the weapons modules too.
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Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:43 pm

[quote="katadder"]didnt want to change what was in play. [/quote]

err arnt we doing that anyway by coming up with balancing ideas?
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Postby katadder » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:00 pm

true to a degree, but wanted to see if could balance the modules 1st by limitations rather than changing what they do.
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Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:15 pm

Problem is your limitations has killed some Modules. Armour for instance now cannot be taken until Border / Raid lvl even though it has pts for patrol and skirmish!

Also some of the Modules need playtesting eg narn hardened module et al!
So we can comment and try to get them even basically balanced!
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:41 am

I still fail to see why the space stations even being immobile need such obsence ranges on the heavy weapons. They are already turreted and having heavy weapons that can reach in excess of 50" is just plain broken.

The massive guns that can be mounted on Skirmish level stations are too much and mutiples of the same gun on higher level stations is equally sick. Most won't worry about their damage levels (which are also very high for their level) as they will simply destroy any ship that trys to closes.

for instance a skirmish Vorlon station can have 6 AD Beam, DD precise at 27". Don't need a Shadow Skirmish ship now - I'll just have a station with a molecular slicer beam at 36" range!!! and a pulse battery - in a skirimsh scenario I would be kinda happy to face most ships? Of course the ISA can reach out to 52" at skirmish :roll: - oh joy - with more firepower than a White Star and better survivability and on a turret.

I wonder if weapons should be restricted by PL as well as HP - so only battle level stations can mount 1 Hard Point level 4 laser and War 2............not that that would stop the above abuse or a huge hangers module on a Drakh (Patrol lvl) way station.

another option perhaps stations should have firing arcs...............mutiple guns could cover multiple arcs but one big gun has only one arc..........
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Postby Grunvald » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:20 pm

That is what we had been doing limiting fire power to levels of station!

2HP weaponry to the Patrol and Skirmish level and possibly raid and then 3+HP weapopnry to the battle and war stations!

Being as a stations cannot move it can't get out of the way or try and hide like a ship can to avoid damage!!

So having more damage is appropriate considering how they can not avoid getting shot at!!
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:48 pm

hmm they may not be able to move but have a huge number of advantages to compansate:

large damage scores (even at hull 4) 50+ at Patrol, 70+ at Skirmish
Extra range on weapons
They are all turetted as well - so it does not care wherre you are
auto repair of criticials
Defences against non beam weapons that would normally hurt Hull 4 - All races have interceptors (and more effective / flexible than normal ones)

All this, even with the suggested amendments, is too much

the 2Hp rule still means a Turreted 27" 3 AD DD precise beam (Vorlon) at Patrol with 50 Damage points and interceptors and I HP adapative armour (so effectively 100+ pts of damage - still at Patrol - scary?

Minbari Patrol station with 5 AD minibeams at 27" range

Advanced hangers at Patrol with 4 flights of super fighters and 2ndary cannons

Drakh Hanger module on Patrol station gives you two free Skirrmish ships!

I love the idea but can see it being banned from the ouset in all but special scenarios....................and with fair stations like B5 (but sadly thats not what people will build)

It needs a huge amount of work to make playable I feel and yes I know you are really helping but isn't P+P supposed to come out in a month or two!?
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Postby Grunvald » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:01 pm

If P&P is surposed to be out in a month or two then i am figuring out that none of these play test rules are going to be ready in time!!

It takes more than a couple of weeks to get everything laid out and ready for the printers!!!
noobdelux
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Postby noobdelux » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:09 pm

i know that the drakh lasers got nerfed, anny other minor changes?
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Postby Grunvald » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:17 pm

most of the large weapons got a AD reduction!
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:21 pm

Grunvald wrote:If P&P is surposed to be out in a month or two then i am figuring out that none of these play test rules are going to be ready in time!!

It takes more than a couple of weeks to get everything laid out and ready for the printers!!!
Well its advertised in this months "Previews" for October (with 90 days possible delay) - so I guess Christmas is the likely date ?

its advertised as SC, B+W, 64 pages and $19.95 - prob £10-12 ?
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Postby Grunvald » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:33 pm

I'd say that October was being too optermistic.

More likely to be a christmas realease!
Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:51 pm

Been pondering the race specific problem with the stations.

eg the stealth for minbari and adaptive armour for vorlon etc

is it worth having a basic race modifier that would have to be applied before anything else?

Something like this for Minbari
Loose interceptors gain Stealth X, gain Advanced Anti Fighter + X
Possibley loose some HP's depending on what is gained?

And depending on race a modifier to the Damage of the station + or negative depending upon the bonus's gained.

Then the Modules are brought to improve upon the basic core as standard!
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Postby Silvereye » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:19 pm

Good catch with the Huge Hangers, I'd not noticed they were bringing Skirmish ships to the game.

I did post something a couple of pages back with some ideas on amending the racial modules, but having a set racial modifier seems a lot more appropriate, especially if you make some of the other standard modules unavailable (e.g. Shadows, gain Biotech, loose Interceptors) and reduce the cost and effects of others.

I think it is the low-end stations that are proportionally more unbalanced, at least in terms of the amount of fire-power that it can bring. If you do make stations with the Offensive/Defensive/Miscellaneous format then the bristling weapons platform is a lot harder to achieve when you realise what ships in Battle/War categories bring to the fight. Definitely think that weapons need heavy mount (Battle+) standard mount (Raid+) and light mount (Patrol+) versions to maintain a better semblance of balance.

For Example: Available weapons (Shadows).

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   24    2     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    8     4     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP

Light Mount: 1 hardpoint -50% Range, -50%AD

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   12    1     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    4     2     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Standard Mount: 2 hardpoint, no change

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   24    2     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    8     4     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Heavy Mount: 3 hardpoint +50% Range, +50% AD

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   36     3     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    12     6     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
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noobdelux
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Postby noobdelux » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:41 pm

Silvereye wrote:Good catch with the Huge Hangers, I'd not noticed they were bringing Skirmish ships to the game.

I did post something a couple of pages back with some ideas on amending the racial modules, but having a set racial modifier seems a lot more appropriate, especially if you make some of the other standard modules unavailable (e.g. Shadows, gain Biotech, loose Interceptors) and reduce the cost and effects of others.

I think it is the low-end stations that are proportionally more unbalanced, at least in terms of the amount of fire-power that it can bring. If you do make stations with the Offensive/Defensive/Miscellaneous format then the bristling weapons platform is a lot harder to achieve when you realise what ships in Battle/War categories bring to the fight. Definitely think that weapons need heavy mount (Battle+) standard mount (Raid+) and light mount (Patrol+) versions to maintain a better semblance of balance.

For Example: Available weapons (Shadows).

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   24    2     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    8     4     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP

Light Mount: 1 hardpoint -50% Range, -50%AD

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   12    1     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    4     2     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Standard Mount: 2 hardpoint, no change

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   24    2     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    8     4     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
Heavy Mount: 3 hardpoint +50% Range, +50% AD

Code: Select all

Weapon                 Range  AD     Special
Moleculer Slicer Beam   36     3     Beam, Precise, Triple Damage
Phasing Pulse Cannon    12     6     Accurate, Double Damage, Super AP
yeah exactly what im thinking abaout but maybe another or 2 hardpoints on the war star base
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Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:36 pm

Ok rough sketch for a minbari racial adaptaion to stations

Level, Dam mod, AAF+ STL, HP used
Patrol -5, 1, 3, 1
Skirmish -10, 2, 3, 1
Raid -15, 3, 4, 2
Battle -20, 4, 4, 3
War -30, 5, 5, 4

Tryin to come up with ideas for other races, workin off what their fleets use mainly and goin from there.
Stuck with a couple any suggestions!


Dilgar ?
Centari ?
Narn Loose interceptors gain 1 Armour
ISA Adaptive armour
Abbai Shields (modified to what are shadow normal)
Brakiri ?
Drazi Troops, Breaching pods, Skycatapult (maybe 1 hanger)
Gaim AAF, Lots of fighters, interceptors
Pak ?
Vree highish AF
Vorlon Adaptive armour, self repair
Shadow Shields, self repair stealth
Drakh GEG no AF or interceptors
Psi ?
Earth thinkin leave as is nothing racial
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Postby Cuthalion » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:51 pm

the races that gain the Adaptive Armour, Self Repair and or Shields trait, would the starting damage for their stations be reduced and or halfed to compensate?
Grunvald
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Postby Grunvald » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:56 pm

Certainly reduced!!! Can't leave them as is cause that would give them a UBER damage station! Probabley somoethin around 40% reduction but would also depend upon the level of core!

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