lethal zones

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Rabidchild
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Postby Rabidchild » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:15 pm

It seems like part of the artillery hate club has to do with the rolling method which is easier, but makes them more powerful: the dice pool method. I wonder how many of the members were accidentally using this method rather than rolling individually.
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Graywinter
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Postby Graywinter » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:16 am

Non Com and I are regular opponents, and we are/were using the dice pool method. Gonna play again on Sunday and we will certainly try it the correct way and report back.

**Goes to paint "Werfer hate club member" on the side of his P-47.**
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Agis
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Postby Agis » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:33 am

Rabidchild wrote:It seems like part of the artillery hate club has to do with the rolling method which is easier, but makes them more powerful: the dice pool method. I wonder how many of the members were accidentally using this method rather than rolling individually.
My thought exactly! I makes a difference...
cheers and keep on gaming, Agis
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shadowbloodmoon
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Postby shadowbloodmoon » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:26 am

Thanks Matt for responding. However, that works as far as artillery fire, as it measures the lethal zone from the impact point. This is as per the Artillery rules in both WaW and Modern Combat. My concern was with weapons not fired as artillery, such as the S-8 rockets I mentioned. They are fired from the Russian Ka-50 Hokum in Modern Combat. Artillery uses Impact point, meaning that all dice are rolled against each target within the weapon's lethal zone. This is the same with Bombs dropped from Aircraft. An impact point is determined and all models within the lethal zone are hit with the damage dice of the bomb, no matter how many there are. These are indirect fire weapons. My concern is with direct fire weapons, such as tank guns, grenades and rockets. The rules in Modern Combat for Lethal Zone (pg. 23) state the following:

...As with other weapons, Damage Dice are allocated as normal. However additional Damage Dice are rolled against every model with in the Lethal Zone...

All the tank guns have one dice. It rolls and hits a tank (or whatever), then rolls additional dice against each other model within the lethal zone.

Following these rules as written, firing rockets would work as follows:

Roll 2xd6. Each die, assuming they didn't roll a one, are allocated the closest and second closest target, as these are the rules for allocating Damage Dice. Then, I have to roll additional dice against all targets within the Lethal Zone, measuring from the first target. This is where the confusion comes in. From the discussion, I gather that 2xd6 are rolled against all these models. This would mean that the second target that already had a die allocated to it would get 2 extra dice. Then there is the question of a possible second lethal zone from the second target from the original Damage allocation. This of course would probably make these rockets far more powerful than intended. The same would go for a team of soldiers that direct fired grenade launchers into a group. As there would be multiple lethal zones (albeit only 1 inch) making many models have many extra dice allocated to them.

So the question remains, though a little changed. How do you determine the first target for direct fire weapons with Lethal Zones? After that, with weapons that have multiple damage dice, is there an extra lethal zone created for the second or more target? If so, do all the extra targets get the full Damage Dice of the weapon?

As I read it, with such direct fire weapons, like the rockets I mentioned, two targets would get at least 3 dice allocated to them and the rest may get as many as 4. This seems awfully powerful. Perhaps that is the difference between direct fire explosives and artillery explosives..

Sorry for the long wind, but just wanted to clarify, as the 'favored' Nebelwerfer is an artillery weapon, whereas the S-8 rockets are not.

Thanks again guys.
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hithero
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Postby hithero » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:46 am

For non-artillery zones, you roll to hit and allocate as normal and then other models are hit as well, rolling damage for each of them. I don't know of any weapon that rolls 2-dice damage as direct fire - don't have the modern rules if they are in there.
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dsfrankevo
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Postby dsfrankevo » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:50 pm

Agis wrote:I can't speak for Matt...Example: A unit of 5 US Soldiers is hit by the dreaded Nebelwerfer. After determining the final impact point 3 Soldiers are within the LZ. For each soldier you roll 2xD6+1 -individually-. You are not rolling 6xD6+1 and allocate.

The weapon becomes more devastating if you roll "a handful and allocate".
Maybe that is the reason why artillery is so dreaded here... :wink:
Since Matt has weighed in that your reading is correct - I will play it & teach it that way hence forth

Either this is a change from the original BF Evo - or lots of us played it wrong then too

Glad to have it cleared up
Agis wrote:
dsfrankevo wrote:
non com wrote:boy whats up with this nebelwefer hate club :P
If I understand the aforementioned gripes correctly - those in question -are saying...
"The rules as currently written make the 'werfer' too powerful. :x "

And much like Christmas - where it is better to give than to recieve
- with the 'werfer' it down right sucks to recieve
- especially every turn for the points they cost :o
Sorry it may be a language thing: But I honestly do not understand your posting. :?: Who is those in question?
Please explain...
Gerywinter has posted the most on this thread - so I guess in this case, he is is the 'Who is those in question?' but he's not alone - the arty rules are a point of some contention in lots of groups

getting the straight scoop is one of the greatest benefits of these boards :P
"You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity. Farewell!"
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Xorrandor
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Postby Xorrandor » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:24 am

dsfrankevo wrote:Either this is a change from the original BF Evo - or lots of us played it wrong then too.
I don't recall any BF Evo weapons having multiple dice for blast effect. They tended to have a different damage statistic for blasts, as well, often a D6 or something similarly small. I kind of preferred that, myself... Ah well, onward and upward. Or something :) .
Lorcan Nagle
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:03 am

It's a move back towards the Starship Troopers rules.
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Xorrandor
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Postby Xorrandor » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:24 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:It's a move back towards the Starship Troopers rules.
I'll buy that it's a move back... :wink:

I'm hardly an expert on modern warfare, but it bugs me that tank guns are so lethal against troops. I would think that 'Lethal Zone/2", D6+2' isn't that much harder to understand than 'Lethal Zone/2"', and makes the whole system that much more flexible. Sure, The Other Company does it the simple way too. But I liked that there was a difference between eating a tank shell, and being nearby when one went off. It just seems more intuitive.

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