Minbari design- Shargoti

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.

What changes, if any, would you make to the Shargoti?

A. Reduce its Hull to 5
0
No votes
B. Reduce its Stealth to 5+
4
33%
C. Reduce its Damage and Crew
0
No votes
D. Increase weapons
3
25%
E. Other (please specify)
1
8%
F. A, B
2
17%
G. A, B, D
0
No votes
H. Nothing, good as is
2
17%
 
Total votes: 12
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Minbari design- Shargoti

Postby ATN082268 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:27 pm

Hello everyone,

I converted the Shargoti Battlecruiser from the Babylon 5 Wars game line to the A Call to Arms game line. I used the 2nd edition Ships of the Fleet (BW-122, 2000) produced by Agents of Gaming as a reference source. I tried to construct the Shargoti so I would actually think a little about whether to take one Armageddon level Shargoti or two War level Sharlins, otherwise it would be too weak or too powerful. Please vote in the poll for the answer which most closely matches your own and add whatever comments you wish in this thread. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris


Shargoti Battlecruiser (Armageddon)

The Shargoti Battlecruiser is essentially a Sharlin War Cruiser but a lot tougher and with slightly better short range firepower. Although designed to be a Flagship for large fleets, some of these ships operated on their own as they were a match for any single ship or small fleet. During the Earth-Minbari War John Sheridan destroyed a lone Shargoti (Drala Fi) in an asteroid field with a hidden nuclear weapon. Although a number of Minbari considered such a tactic as cowardly, many from other races think it no worse than the Minbari hiding behind their stealth technology.

Speed: 5
Turn: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 85/25
Crew: 90/27
Troops: 8
Craft: 5 Nial Flights
In Service: 2112

Special Rules: Advanced Jump Engine, Flight Computer, Command +3, Advanced Anti-Fighter 6, Stealth 6+, Lumbering.

Weapon/ Range/ Arc/ AD/ Special

Neutron Laser/ 30/ F/ 8/ Beam, Precise, Double Damage.

Neutron Laser/ 30/ A/ 6/ Beam, Precise, Double Damage.

Fusion Cannon/ 18/ F/ 10/ Mini-Beam, Twin-Linked.

Fusion Cannon/ 18/ A/ 6/ Mini-Beam, Twin-Linked.

Fusion Cannon/ 18/ P/ 8/ Mini-Beam, Twin-Linked.

Fusion Cannon/ 18/ S/ 8/ Mini-Beam, Twin-Linked.
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Postby katadder » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:21 pm

well apart from stealth and toughness not much else has changed from a standard sharlins loadout.
probably needs stealth lowering for certain as only the leshath has stealth 6+.
maybe weapons increase to replace that though.
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Postby Tank » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:38 pm

All the AD need to be increased or you need to change the damage multipliers, especially the main weapons
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Postby Tolwyn » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:30 am

Hull 6 and Stealth 6 is a bit much IMO, Stealth 5 is ok.

I would brake with AOG fluff who tells that the Shargoti is an upgunned Sharlin. I would clearly make it a larger cousin, developed after the Sharlin as Theater Flagships for large battles and elite units. This would allow you to improve Damage/Crew and the overall firepower of the ship.
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Postby Burger » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:54 am

Its name needs to be changed to "Neroon" ;)
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Postby Tolwyn » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:42 am

Just only the "Neroon" was designed nearly 200 years after the Shargoti
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Too much?

Postby ATN082268 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:53 pm

Tolwyn wrote:Hull 6 and Stealth 6 is a bit much IMO, Stealth 5 is ok.

I would brake with AOG fluff who tells that the Shargoti is an upgunned Sharlin. I would clearly make it a larger cousin, developed after the Sharlin as Theater Flagships for large battles and elite units. This would allow you to improve Damage/Crew and the overall firepower of the ship.
Is Hull 6 and Stealth 6 too much for an Armageddon level ship like the Shargoti which has only marginally better short range firepower over a War level ship like the Sharlin? If it is clearly too powerful as is, I'd understand lowering the Stealth score to 5+ but why lower the Stealth score and then give it stuff like more weapons, damage/crew, etc?

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
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Postby M1ndr1d3rs » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:59 pm

If you go by the film... It should hold its own against several Hyperions and Novas of the early years :wink:
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Postby David, Anla Shok' » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:06 am

M1ndr1d3rs wrote:If you go by the film... It should hold its own against several Hyperions and Novas of the early years :wink:
As I recollect, it was part of a small task force, not operating on its own.
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:47 am

David, Anla Shok' wrote:As I recollect, it was part of a small task force, not operating on its own.
Yet those other ships were never seen. According to Sheridan's first account of the battle, it took place in the Sol system, which was ridiculous. If the Minbari were in Sol already why not just attack? No one can claim the flagship of the Minbari space fleet was on a recce patrol... :roll:
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Re: Too much?

Postby katadder » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:56 am

ATN082268 wrote:
Tolwyn wrote:Hull 6 and Stealth 6 is a bit much IMO, Stealth 5 is ok.

I would brake with AOG fluff who tells that the Shargoti is an upgunned Sharlin. I would clearly make it a larger cousin, developed after the Sharlin as Theater Flagships for large battles and elite units. This would allow you to improve Damage/Crew and the overall firepower of the ship.
Is Hull 6 and Stealth 6 too much for an Armageddon level ship like the Shargoti which has only marginally better short range firepower over a War level ship like the Sharlin? If it is clearly too powerful as is, I'd understand lowering the Stealth score to 5+ but why lower the Stealth score and then give it stuff like more weapons, damage/crew, etc?

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
because stealth 6+ is a huge change to make compared to some weapon changes. stealth 6+ means you wont even be targeted most the time. stealth 5+ but with better weapons makes the ship more powerful without making it impossible to target.
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:26 am

I like this description I read somewhere..............

Through the black and red gusts of hyperspace even further off beacon another far larger shape cut silently through the turmoil, a tall and stately warship that swam the currents like a fish dives in the oceans. It’s design flowed like a living thing, curved and shaped with care and grace by it’s builders and surmounted by long elegant fins, finished by a large leaf like appendage driving it forward. The creation was one of four Minbari Warcruisers in a box formation shadowing the Dilgar, Sharlin class vessels all but unmatched among the races of the galaxy. Of the known races only the Yolu could match the power and prestige of these
warships, but while they were older and argued by some more advanced than the Minbari they were peaceful and did not know how to properly craft instruments of war. At least so the Warrior Caste liked to argue.
The basic hull form dated back a thousand years, created to an image provided by Valen to fulfil the role of his sword in battle with the Shadows. The first generation of these warships had met with great success and their use in war seemed to both please Valen and disturb him. No one quite knew why Valen was so uncomfortable with the ships he had inspired, like he almost could not bare to look at them sometimes and would never look out of the window of his shuttle if approaching one. Like many things Valen did not speak of it, and no one dared ask. The ship had been refitted, weapons and systems improved, construction methods modernised, hull materials replaced. But at the core these cruisers, like their smaller brethren the Tinashi Frigates were externally identical to the warships of the last Great Shadow war, and if prophecy were correct they would be key in the next war too.
Sharlin class ships had worried everyone from the Centauri Emperor down to the most primitive League world that had heard of them, yet they were not the ultimate avatar of Minbari might. At the centre of the box formation was a fifth ship, externally similar in homage to Valen but noticeably bigger and appropriately better armed. They had called it the Shargotti class in respect of Valen’s greatest warrior hero who had fallen in battle against the Shadows, the hope being ships of this class would do him the honour of matching a Shadow cruiser one for one. Looking at the raw firepower the Minbari had squeezed into the design it was not such a wild statement. However few of these ships existed, they were hard to build, expensive to run and with no evidence of a Shadow fleet were largely considered impractical. Currently only one such ship wa son active service, the ship deployed here, flagship of the entire Minbari Federation and most glorious symbol of their might. It bore the name Drala Fi, or Black Star.
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Postby Locutus9956 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:06 pm

Incidentally DB, I read on another forum the LC might be working on another mamoth epic telling the story of the Earth Minbari War.... If you (or anyone) hear any more about this please PLEASE PM me as suffice to say I would quite like to read it ;)
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Postby M1ndr1d3rs » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:04 pm

Lord David the Denied wrote:
David, Anla Shok' wrote:As I recollect, it was part of a small task force, not operating on its own.
Yet those other ships were never seen. According to Sheridan's first account of the battle, it took place in the Sol system, which was ridiculous. If the Minbari were in Sol already why not just attack? No one can claim the flagship of the Minbari space fleet was on a recce patrol... :roll:
Yes. I was referring to the scene in The Beginning. It was alone, jumped in the middle of the EA fleet... It WAS Armageddon..
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Re: Too much?

Postby ATN082268 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:39 pm

katadder wrote:
ATN082268 wrote:
Tolwyn wrote:Hull 6 and Stealth 6 is a bit much IMO, Stealth 5 is ok.

I would brake with AOG fluff who tells that the Shargoti is an upgunned Sharlin. I would clearly make it a larger cousin, developed after the Sharlin as Theater Flagships for large battles and elite units. This would allow you to improve Damage/Crew and the overall firepower of the ship.
Is Hull 6 and Stealth 6 too much for an Armageddon level ship like the Shargoti which has only marginally better short range firepower over a War level ship like the Sharlin? If it is clearly too powerful as is, I'd understand lowering the Stealth score to 5+ but why lower the Stealth score and then give it stuff like more weapons, damage/crew, etc?

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
because stealth 6+ is a huge change to make compared to some weapon changes. stealth 6+ means you wont even be targeted most the time. stealth 5+ but with better weapons makes the ship more powerful without making it impossible to target.

I don't understand why it is impossible to target 6+ stealth but possible to target 5+ stealth. Can you explain it to me?

Sincerely,

Andrew
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:49 pm

Its not impossible just very difficult........... :shock:
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Postby katadder » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:03 pm

well you can lower stealth by one with a scout, another one with getting within 8" and finally one more with another ship successfully beating stealth. so lowest it could be is stealth 3.
however this thing can sit over 20" happily making its stealth 7+. scouts dont last very long against minbari due to the leshath removing their stealth (unless its explorer which lasts quite some time). so chances are it will sit at a distance being unable to be shot at whilst nuking your fleet.
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:11 pm

Shadows could get to 2+ but they are better off killing the Leshath to help protect the Scouts............

of course you can hit it always on a 6 - but I agree I think Stealth 6 is too much - perhaps adaptive armour and a tureted beam :wink:
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Postby David, Anla Shok' » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:30 pm

M1ndr1d3rs wrote:
Lord David the Denied wrote:
David, Anla Shok' wrote:As I recollect, it was part of a small task force, not operating on its own.
Yet those other ships were never seen. According to Sheridan's first account of the battle, it took place in the Sol system, which was ridiculous. If the Minbari were in Sol already why not just attack? No one can claim the flagship of the Minbari space fleet was on a recce patrol... :roll:
Yes. I was referring to the scene in The Beginning. It was alone, jumped in the middle of the EA fleet... It WAS Armageddon..
This was one of those things that got "changed" a bit as the show went on. The ambush happened in a system, not Terran, in an asteroid belt, not ours, with a Minbari task force of a few ships. There are small references to this event through several episodes that contravene the "facts" as stated in "The Beginning". Continunity is such a wonderful thing ;)
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Postby M1ndr1d3rs » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:45 pm

I can only conclude that they want the Black Star to be one really, really nasty ship. Well, I guess that's Armageddon level for you :wink:
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