The Future of BF Evo - and a Poll. . .

[MongooseMatt]

And for god's sake: Work on your support for the people that give you the money for your living. US!

Well, here is a question - what do you feel is lacking? We run regular articles for all our games in S&P, we have roving demo teams, our front line games get regular updates.

What is it you are after?

[Eisho]

Whatever Mongoose do I will wait 5 years before I spend any serious money again.

Like A Call to Arms?

Yes, like A Call to Arms, which I have been playing on and off from the beginning. This is a quality game (but all your products are) that, for whatever reason, has made it past the hype. Quality of minis is not the issue for me so much, and even if the pre-paints didn't live up to expectations they were still good enough and far more cost-effective than me spending my time painting.

Whatever (fair) criticism can be levelled at GW and Wizards over pricing, continual revamping etc. they have products that endure. THIS is what I'm looking for, not some flash in the pan product that is here today and gone tomorrow. Superior gameplay is wasted on a system that isn't widely gamed.

Eisho

[Sgt. Scream]

And for god's sake: Work on your support for the people that give you the money for your living. US!

Well, here is a question - what do you feel is lacking? We run regular articles for all our games in S&P, we have roving demo teams, our front line games get regular updates.

What is it you are after?

umm, putting a game on hold for half a year is what you call 'support it'? Ok, I do admit: You put it on hold because you really wanted to improve the lack of quality on the minis (which I spoke of interfering to drag some people I know into your game). Now the big rescue deal for the game is off because of Clancy's lawyers. Does your support end here now?
I think most people can live without Clancy-inspired units but they hardly will continue a game without miniatures...

See, the S & P articles are appreciated. I like to have new official stuff for the game. But I am able to create new cards alone if I wouldn't get yours.
What we can't do, Mr Sprange, is: Producing miniatures. That is your job. And I really think you can do it. Painted or not does not really bother me at the moment. But ending up with no more new units, but having cards for them, is quite a bit sad.

[127th Angry Angels]

Ok, i've calmed down now. It's friday after all and nobody can take that away.

I'd keep playing (and indeed paying) if things picked up where they left off. It sounds like that's not a option though. Bit annoyed at the reasons given stopping pre-paints, find it hard to believe the contractual end would let the contractors get away with the quality issues and the pose issue- surely this was know going into the deal. But that's a rant for a monday.

I'm all for polling the unpainted mini range, i've no problem with painting up stuff. Especially as it'd be more special units as i've the core units in place already. I understand that's not the same for everyone and it may impact on new players.

I'd love to keep the setting. I think it's a draw but does suffer from alot of real world comparison. Eh, show me a game without any arguments/comparisons that isn't dead- i reckon you'll always get a bit of it.

I think keeping the scale is a good idea. As others have said it'd give the game a strong identity and keep the fans with existing figs happy.

I think it really comes down to the financial state of the mongoose. Can they afford to take the risk on continuing BF:Evo? Was it a success for them in finance terms? Is it worth investing more on this?

All we can do is tell them what we want and what we'd pe prepared to pay for and they can do the math.

[Paladin]

I think it really comes down to the financial state of the mongoose. Can they afford to take the risk on continuing BF:Evo? Was it a success for them in finance terms? Is it worth investing more on this?

All we can do is tell them what we want and what we'd pe prepared to pay for and they can do the math.

Exactly. Which is why I asked how many books sold. Is it sufficient to do CPR to the game or better to DNR?

The other big factor for me is whether the in house mini production can handle rereleasing the game with the coming push of SST. Is the capacity there or with it hurt both games?

[Ali the conqueror]

Man, just give us the game (Rules and Minis) will yah! I'm tired to see this modern tabletop games gone from tabletop worlds.
Why can't you make that minis and also you don't have to publish new minis of BF Evo every months! Just make 3-4 months, and have consistent rules on it too.
Okay, want an agenda for 'new' bf evo, make new rulebooks ONE THAT IS UNDENIABLE AND LONGER TO LIVE.
Second, produce new lines of basic minis (pre-paint or not, don't matter just good and reliable quality), this goes to basic infantry, basic tanks, basic transport and basic copter/Vtol.
Third, start planning ahead of new minis you want to release and the rules to back it up (evo command mostly do this job).

[shotgun-toting chipmunk]

And for god's sake: Work on your support for the people that give you the money for your living. US!

Well, here is a question - what do you feel is lacking? We run regular articles for all our games in S&P, we have roving demo teams, our front line games get regular updates.

What is it you are after?

Matthew certainly brings up an interesting point. BF:Evo has been featured in at least one article in all but one Signs and Portents-Wargamer since Issue 36. As for the content, I'll touch on that in a bit.

That said, the biggest problem of course was a lack of new physical products (ie Minis) or concrete news. The former was an issue for people who wanted more options for their games (apparantly just about everybody). I got the impression the latter was a particular problem for the demo teams; without any news on where the game was going (or even a good "company line") they had trouble figuring out what to do demo-wise and so the drive stalled in many areas.

Some of the Signs and Portents articles helped. Gauging the reactions of people on these forums, it seems the unit cards were a hit (for the most part) as it was the closest people got to having new releases. The Kerakhistan Race of Death met with mixed reviews, and new alternate rules like snipers and tank riders seemed to go over well. The battle reports and scenarios/campaigns seemed to get luke-warm reactions at best. As I've mentioned in another thread, I think this was a result of the very basic nature of these pieces. At the end of the year, when over a two-month span we recieved a basic rules battle report and a scenario involving elves, people really started to panic about the game.

With that said, what is it "we're" after? Here's what I think:

1. More unit cards (at least while we have to wait for #6 below)
2. More intricate scenarios/campaigns
3. A more detailed background presented in S&P and/or supplements
4. Terrain and conversion articles in S&P
5. More optional rules with the best possibly put in an "official" book
6. Most importantly---Miniatures!!!

One minor thing: How about some evo love in the blog?

[tiepilot1138]

I've read through all of these posts, and to say that I'm disappointed would be an understatement. I still don't know how to vote, as none of the presented options really appeal to me. The main reason I got into this game was the pre-painted mini's (like many of the others here). I'm at a point in life where painting just isn't realistic for me. I have the skill, but not the time to do the kind of painting that I would be comfortable with placing on the table. I wasn't overly critical of the quality of the minis, but the price was a bit high. Luckily I'm also at a point in my life where that wasn't a deal-breaker for me. The other big reason was the modern day feel with real-world toys. I like real world stuff. If I want futuristic, I could go back to GW, or play SST.

My main issue with turning over the game to the masses is a lack of coherencey. Don't get me wrong, the guys over at evocommand do good work, and work hard at it, but I see all that as house rules. House rules are fine in small company, but I want to be able to walk into a game shop and play without having to worry about which rules we're using today, or whose variant of which card we'll use and which proxy model is which. I think handing the game over to the community will kill any sort of official tourney's (not that I've ever seen one around here anyway). I'd like the company to come out and say "these are the rules, and here are minis to use with them". I'd prefer pre-paints, but could deal with non-painted if the price was right (and $30 US is NOT right for 10 unpainted plastic minis). I think they had the market cornered with infantry, and bought lots of them. I did some 3rd party buying as well, since things like the FoV tanks were much more detailed, sturdy and a third of the cost of one Mongoose tank.

I also don't like the idea of a major revision. I felt cheated when I saw the content and quality of the advanced rulebook, but I dealt with it. To make that book useless now would be another nail in the coffin for me.

Minor rules tweaking and updates are great in S&P. Elf fights are not. The only way that would have been even decently cool was if you released the Lee Major's mini (which I am ashamed to admit I would have bought up in a heartbeat!).

I really like the idea of a small scale skirmish (Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon sized) with more detail. I think it would be a huge selling point if a way could be found to incorporate those rules (even if it was a subset to the main force-on-force rules).

All in all, I'm not selling off my significantly sized collection, but I have been looking for other rule sets to use them with. I love BFE as it is. It's still a great way to kill a couple hours. If the game is turned over the masses, with no mini support though, I'll probably wind up drifting away.

[Xorrandor]

IMO you guys at Mongoose should have never released the game after that sort of comments around the internet.

And IMO listening to "that sort of comments" helped kill the game. There is nothing--not one thing--that could have made the GW crowd like a pre-painted game. If they had been painted to White-Dwarf-gallery standards, they would have complained about the lack of posability. If they were posable, they would have complained that everyone's army looked the same. Why bother catering to "customers" who will never buy the game?

The criterion for continuing the game should be: were they selling? If the minis were selling (that is, making a profit), then there's no reason not to continue. If they weren't, then cutting your losses might be necessary. Listening to whining from people who would never buy the product anyway is just silly.

[Sgt. Scream]

An add-on book would be a nice idea. It could be based on a conflict instead of being just 'rules version 2'.
With the conflict in the book, you can add the storyline and background people asked for. Side by side with a lot of new 'official' gear for the armies part of the war.
Add the scenarios and and a campaign map, build some nice terrain for the scenarios and show us how you've built it.

I think Forgeworld can sell thousands of copies of their Imperial Armour books - why shouldn't we deserve such a thing for Battlefield Evolution?

[Raznag]

Keep the game as is (same setting, same scale, etc.)

Just bring new plastic/resin/metal models at the same scale so we can continue to wage war with new unit and still use the prepainted one.

[Sgt. Scream]

IMO you guys at Mongoose should have never released the game after that sort of comments around the internet.

And IMO listening to "that sort of comments" helped kill the game. There is nothing--not one thing--that could have made the GW crowd like a pre-painted game. If they had been painted to White-Dwarf-gallery standards, they would have complained about the lack of posability. If they were posable, they would have complained that everyone's army looked the same. Why bother catering to "customers" who will never buy the game?

The criterion for continuing the game should be: were they selling? If the minis were selling (that is, making a profit), then there's no reason not to continue. If they weren't, then cutting your losses might be necessary. Listening to whining from people who would never buy the product anyway is just silly.

You realise that I own all factions (I was a GW fanboy turned to the good side ) and that I am in fact one of the biggest supporters of the game what-so-ever and also one of those guys, that adds new stuff to it constantly?!?

I told what other tabletop gamers thought about the game. I did not describe my own feeling.

[Xorrandor]

You realise that I own all factions (I was a GW fanboy turned to the good side ) and that I am in fact one of the biggest supporters of the game what-so-ever and also one of those guys, that adds new stuff to it constantly?!?

I told what other tabletop gamers thought about the game. I did not describe my own feeling.

It's not that I'm mad at you, I'm just mad at one of your ideas. You said they should never have published in the face of negative Internet buzz. I say one can get negative Internet buzz for saying the sky is blue. If you could see through the bad press, and I could see through the bad press, why do you say that Mongoose should not have published because of the bad press? I don't think any amount of modeling quality would have satisfied the nay-sayers, so why bother delaying the release (more than it already was) to try?

[mikeg99]

How about option #5

You refund me the price on the following:
MEA Infantry Squad x 5
MEA Fedayeen Squad x 3
MEA Technicals x 2
MEA 2S6 Tunguska x 1
USMC Infantry Squad x 4
USMC Force Recon Team x 5
USMC Shadow RST-V x 2
USMC M1A2 Abrams MBT x 3
British Army Infantry Command Section x 4
British Army Infantry Section x 5
British Army SAS Patrol x 1
British Army Challenger II MBT x 4
PLA Infantry Command Squad x 4
PLA Infantry Squad x 3
PLA WZ-551 IFV x 4
PLA Type 99 MBT x 3

I won't go into detail on the amount spent on Crescent Root Terrain / 1/64th scale Corgi minis to go along with what I thought was a great NEW product!
This is a big slap in the face to the folks who bought into your product line. (along with your company) What brought me to your product was the PRE-PAINTED FIGS along with the time period it covered. I recall picking up your flyer you had describing the game along with the FUTURE product releases! WTF happened to that early-mid 2007?
Thanks MGP.

I could not agree with you more. I will not be buying or supporting any Mongoose products anymore. This is not the first time Mongoose has pulled support for their games after promising brighter futures in forum posts.

It's not as if MGP had a hidden and evil plan 18-odd months ago to get people to buy a few waves of minis and then keep you on the edge for a few months more or anything. I can understand dissapointment, but anger and hostility for a company that's constantly trying their best (regardless of their record of success, I'm astounded at how passionate and enthusiastic the mongeese are) to provide good games for peopel to play? This isn't GW removing and reinstating support for Specialist games on a whim here.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. Many of the posts regarding this game from Mongoose talk about how it would be a supported game. Support to me means more miniatures. They have released several games, promised support, and dumped the game. Should they have to continue to develop a game that does not bring them income? Of course not. But they should not make promises or instill hope in people based on their posts. This is not the first game they have developed where they have just left the game in the dark. Likewise, I should not have to spend my hard earned money on a game from a company with a mediocre track record at best in terms of miniatures games.

As for your GW post, I have no idea where that comes from. I have never compared Mongoose to GW.

[Wishbone]

At the end of the day, the Evo rules system's main advantage is it's versitility. All you need give us are unit cards, and we can use them for anything - including fantasy, sci fi, whatever. Add on books are kind of unnecessary unless they contain a lot of unit cards.

Of course, if MGP decide to pull the miniatures range and leave us to source our own figures, that might be a good move - just pump out the content and we'll worry about figs.

I would, however, state that MGP should specify a scale if it goes down that road (which will probably mean joining the multitude of 1/72-ers out there).

[JayRaider]

Whatever the opinion of the gamers here at the forum the direction Mongoose would like to take BFE to is..... PROFITABILITY.
This game has failed because it didn't sell enough. (nevermind the reasons for now).
Thats the bottomline.

A re-launch with metal mini's at the same scale will satisfy the dedicated like me but it won't attract enough new gamers (again).
It will just lose Mongoose more money!
Wargamers who play in a modern setting will not play 1/64.
The Fantasy/Sci-fi hobby crowd aren't interested either.
So who is this relaunched metal mini's game aimed for?
The diehards Evo fans will buy in.
Thats not enough!

Lets say within a few weeks Mongoose decides to go metal mini's continuation or re-launch.
How long before the mini's hit the streets?
6-9 months? Probably more.
To late.
The small base who were playing the game has been halved. The Pre-painted gamers are gone and won't come back.
Its all over. Its hard to accept. Mongoose have lost a fortune as have all the diehards who invested.
Time to face the most awful truth.

[Hiromoon]

Can we get Jay's title changed to either 'Prophet-o-Doom' or 'That Crazy Guy Who Stands on the Corner and Yells Doom'?

[JayRaider]

Can we get Jay's title changed to either 'Prophet-o-Doom' or 'That Crazy Guy Who Stands on the Corner and Yells Doom'?

[Hiromoon]

Or better yet 'Does Not Have Enough Beer In Him'?

Seriously though, we need to do something instead of just standing around shouting proclamations of the game being dead....

Think, Jay! Think! What time does the 1st Bank of Ireland open?

[JayRaider]

Think, Jay! Think! What time does the 1st Bank of Ireland open?

Who cares! We have atm's here too.

I've noticed one thing everybody agrees on.
Further developement of small squad Evo with more in depth rules.
If Ubisoft didn't work out, well its time to develope something along the lines of ghost recon etc
Just make enough changes in the fluff to make it legal.