The Future of BF Evo - and a Poll. . .

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.

What Direction for BF Evo?

1. Give us the game!
30
40%
2. Revise away - I want new kit!
26
35%
3. Go all out with a new game!
7
9%
4. Actually, I have a better idea. . .
12
16%
 
Total votes: 75
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The Future of BF Evo - and a Poll. . .

Postby MongooseMatt » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:47 pm

Hi guys,

Okay, the big reveal time. . .

Last year, we were contacted by a software company. Their lead design team in Singapore had seen BF Evo and then contacted their UK Licensing office, basically saying 'you _have_ to get these guys working on our stuff!'

The company was Ubisoft, and the design team was working on the Tom Clancey franchise.

You can understand the excitement. There were a lot of big ideas being talked about. There was talk of huge runs of pre-painted models being distributed through games stores, Play.com and Toys R Us. Some ideas were more feasible than others.

We boiled everything down to a hobby games release, which would serve as 'proof of concept'. Basically, if we did a cracking job on the game and miniatures for our current hobby games market, we could then look forward to a more mainstream release (with pre-painteds and everything else). We would have begun with End War, but slowly covered the whole franchise as new versions of games, such as Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon (along with some others not yet announced), were released. Each game would have been compatible with the others, so you if your Rainbow Six teams were getting constantly kicked by the terrorists, you could use Ghost Recon instead. If the terrorists needed help, you could swap them out with frontline Russian units, and so on. There would have been 'macro' rules, similar to the current BF Evo, for large scale games like End War, and 'micro' versions for smaller actions, like Rainbow Six, with more detailed weapon and damage rules. And so on.

We had everything agreed in principle with Ubisoft, and just needed clearence from Tom Clancey's lawyers (you'll remember a sideways mention about a third party). Unfortunately, for various reasons, there were hurdles that could not be cleared.

While we continue to talk to Ubisoft (and others) about various games, what we had hoped and intended for BF Evo will not be happening for the foreseeable future.

So, where do we go from here? Well, we have some ideas, but given the extreme loyalty shown by fans of the game through the most trying of times, we have decided to pretty much hand the choice over to you. You get to decide what happens to the game. These are the current options.

1. We turn the game over to you.
Building on the work of the good people at Evocommand, we make the game public, allowing anyone to write for it. There will be some legal bits and bobs, but nothing too strenuous or binding. Basically, it would allow anyone to post (maybe even PDF publish, it can be discussed) new scenarios, units and armies. Models could be used from any existing model manufacturer.

2. We revise the game.
There are a small number of rules issues that could be resolved with a re-release. However, the main thrust here would be a new setting. We would propose pushing the game's setting a little further into the future, making it 20-30 years ahead, and thus bringing in a lot of new tanks and weapons - existing ones would still be used, but the Abrams would be the equivalent of something like a Chieftain! Rules would be included to use all current tech kit (even models from other manufacturers, giving you access to just about everything available to armies today), but we would also release a new range of models whose technology would be based on the most speculative material today. Real next gen stuff. The models themselves would be a mixture of metal and resin, no pre-paints (sorry, but pre-paints are not going to happen any time soon).

3. We really revise the game.
At least in terms of setting. Looking over computer games such as Ace Combat 6, there is little pretense to make a real world setting, allowing them to mix and match eastern and western equipment to their content. Potentially, we could look at doing something similar, and thus avoid any issues raised by depicting real world combat.

4. Something else.
We are giving you the choice anyway, so if you have a better idea, let's hear it!
Matthew Sprange

Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
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Postby rvrratt » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:59 pm

Sorry to hear it didn't work out Matt! I would love to see a revision....not so much of the rules, but I want Mongoose Miniatures! Lead, plastic, or resin. Painted or unpainted! Doesn't matter. I love this game and really want to see Mongoose release more miniatures, in the evo scale please so my existing minis don't look goofy to the new ones. Besides, its not really that easy to find other manuafacturer models for the game. I like the current era but would be for the 20-30 years down the road as well.

Thats my feelings! Hope that helps! :D
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Postby Pietia » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:10 pm

Well, I think that you could use a "combined" approach, kinda like the guys from Wizards of the Coast. Officially allow people (like me and others at Evocommand) to add to the game, and put your own setting for it on the market. The futuristic setting you mentioned may be quite interesting and - what's IMO important - would allow you to avoid competition with companies like Dragon and Corgi in the model department (let's be honest, their models were cheaper and more detailed than yours).
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Postby rvrratt » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:16 pm

Pietia wrote:Well, I think that you could use a "combined" approach, kinda like the guys from Wizards of the Coast. Officially allow people (like me and others at Evocommand) to add to the game, and put your own setting for it on the market. The futuristic setting you mentioned may be quite interesting and - what's IMO important - would allow you to avoid competition with companies like Dragon and Corgi in the model department (let's be honest, their models were cheaper and more detailed than yours).
I like this idea too! Have MGP make the more cutting edge, futuristic models. Still, models like the LAV-AD are hard to find and would be great if Mongoose made it. Common models like the M-1 and the Challenger are easy to find so not a good thing for MGP.

Specialty modern models, infantry, and future tech should be what MGP focus on IMO.
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Postby pixelgeek » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:20 pm

Any reason why you can't do 1 and 2?

Or more specifically, how about creating and selling a paperback and PDF version of a generic rule system based on B:Evo and then allow people to create new stats for it? That way you could get people creating stat sets for things like the Pig Iron Productions sci-fi minis.
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Postby xeoran » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:43 pm

I think 1 is a brilliant idea for BF: Evo, offering an open source game and maybe collecting the best stuff into a free annual download so people can see the game support. I think you could have a lot of fun with Flaming Cobra wargaming here too, taking the best settings people devise, fleshing them out and selling them via PDF for a low price with a little bit of professionalism or art added (i.e. cover art, proofreading).

But I'd also like to see option 3. There is no reason MGP couldn't design a game for micro FPS/Squad style combat like we see in many games where 1-10 people take on enemies. And if you create a basic set of rules you can then continue the (in my eyes brilliant) idea of allowing people to use the same rules but swap and mix settings. After all creating a neo-SWAT game like Rainbow 6 that isn't Rainbow 6 isn't that difficult, nor an immediate future game like Ghost Recon. Hell, if you want I'll design both settings for that for free. I think its a very cool idea. In fact I think doing 3 then doing 1 to it would be great. Create a basic micro game for 1-20 models, sell for a low price online with a single introductory setting and then add new, cool settings as expansion packs whilst allowing fans to make their own mods.
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Postby 127th Angry Angels » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:43 pm

:shock:

Ok. Few things spring to mind.

1. That would have been an excellent liecence to get. Shame that it's dead, was the whole BF:Evo line to prove that you could pull it off?

2. Why can't you ressume where you left off?

3. I'm not sure what difference turning the game over the public would really make. We've sort've already got it what with Evo command's community. How would it really change things?

4. We want miniatures. Are you completely against putting out new mini lines for BF:Evo?

Thanks for some news
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Postby Ali the conqueror » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:45 pm

REVISE THE GAME!
Here is my suggestion :
1. NEW KIT,
I want something of better quality and customizable (or easily converted, hint : plastic), it doesn't really matter if pre-paint or non-paint (but I prefer non paint so I can create my own color scheme, is not Arabs militia are wearing 'uniform' clothes!) and try to adjust your price at reasonable so people don't go to other minis manufacturer (such as tamiya, liberation etc).

2. 'BRANDED' RULEBOOK
A rulebook that consist all entire basic rules that serves as basis of the games (no matter how much new unit/ new armies out there).. think 40k rulebook, you understand.... and also if possible no things called FAQ are out when you release rulebook

3. MORE FLUFF AND HISTORICAL REFERENCE
Me thinks need this and try to put on more modern wars not 20 years future ahead, 10 years is better... put REAL historical reference such as somalia wars or korean crisis too (our 10 years of war ago)

4. UP-TO-DATE and PLAYER FRIENDLY SUBMITTED NEW UNIT RULES
why it easy to know number 4, we want new unit (and if possible you put the kit of it) and player may also submit a new unit rules to make it official.

5. GLOBAL CAMPAIGN
I know it's impossible for now but hey with tom clancy..... (just make sure it doesn't involve ghost recon)
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Postby rvrratt » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:57 pm

127th Angry Angels wrote::shock:

2. Why can't you ressume where you left off?

3. I'm not sure what difference turning the game over the public would really make. We've sort've already got it what with Evo command's community. How would it really change things?

4. We want miniatures. Are you completely against putting out new mini lines for BF:Evo?

Thanks for some news
Agree 100%!
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:58 pm

I like 1, 2, and 3, though given some of the stuff I've been working on, that shouldn't be much of a surprise.
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Postby Pietia » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:05 pm

127th Angry Angels wrote: 4. We want miniatures. Are you completely against putting out new mini lines for BF:Evo?
Yo mean me or MP? I want new mini line, but not Abrams tanks that I can buy in every store - gimme some futuristic stuff instead ;-)
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Postby rvrratt » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:13 pm

Pietia wrote:
127th Angry Angels wrote: 4. We want miniatures. Are you completely against putting out new mini lines for BF:Evo?
Yo mean me or MP? I want new mini line, but not Abrams tanks that I can buy in every store - gimme some futuristic stuff instead ;-)
Futuristic and for sure foot troops. While you can find other manufactures that make troops, you would be hard pressed to find ones that match the MGP scale. There is only one company I know that is close, but they lack variety.
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Postby Hiromoon » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:14 pm

I'd say MP, Pietia....
3. I'm not sure what difference turning the game over the public would really make. We've sort've already got it what with Evo command's community. How would it really change things?


Well, I wouldn't mind having to pay a small licencing fee to get my work branded with MGP's seal'o'approval.
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Postby SnowDog » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:23 pm

Ah, what a sweet deal it would have been. I would really have liked that kind of interchangeability.

Now, what I really want is:

1) Although I voted for number 2, I would really like more detailed setting. Current BF:E doesn't really have a setting and the most driving force behind WH:40K is the fluff and background. Give us more of that but if possible don't make it too restrictive as there will be people who want to run games in more contemporary theatres of war.

2) Work on the two different detail levels. Personally I am more interested in more detailed games where I can send a small SpecOps force to rescue a downed pilot while bad guys field more but less capable troops. Maybe this could have some RPG elements like characters getting experience and thus getting better? Another level would very well be the current level and both should be able to use same figures.

Matt, thanks for giving the news although they were not necessarily good ones but they still gave us the score.
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Postby xeoran » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:23 pm

rvrratt wrote:While you can find other manufactures that make troops, you would be hard pressed to find ones that match the MGP scale. There is only one company I know that is close, but they lack variety.
Madness. One of the reasons BF Evo seemed to tank on a large part of the market was that 1/50 isn't a proper scale. Either you hook the lunatic 1/72 crowd or the 28mm crowd. If MGP make more 1/50 minis they are dooming themselves to only selling to existing fans. Making 28mm would be far more sensible on the wider market, even if it is a kick in the teeth to older fans.
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Postby rvrratt » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:40 pm

xeoran wrote:
rvrratt wrote:While you can find other manufactures that make troops, you would be hard pressed to find ones that match the MGP scale. There is only one company I know that is close, but they lack variety.
Madness. One of the reasons BF Evo seemed to tank on a large part of the market was that 1/50 isn't a proper scale. Either you hook the lunatic 1/72 crowd or the 28mm crowd. If MGP make more 1/50 minis they are dooming themselves to only selling to existing fans. Making 28mm would be far more sensible on the wider market, even if it is a kick in the teeth to older fans.
You have some good points however thats to big of a kick in the teeth for me. I mean, I have 3 of the 4 factions, all very very large.
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Postby Col_stone » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 pm

xeoran wrote: 1/50
I take it you mean 1/65 :)

I would have prefered 1/56 myself 8)
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Postby Chiwie » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 pm

1/72 would be the way to go... liberation miniatures will love it ;) As for stuff for mgp to make there is a very much untapped market for future weapons in 1/72 and having a easy to find source of infantry would be great also....

sad to see the endwar deal fall thou... that would of been all kinds of awesome.

personally i reckon it would be great if MGP made the rules "open" for submissions, letting the community run the game.
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Postby Sgt. Scream » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:49 pm

Give the game to us. I refer 'us' as Evocommand.com comunity in the first place. It is US that supported it since the release in most parts anyway. It was US that kept on going with it even in hard times. It was US that gave the community new cards, scenarios, contests and game variants.
My mind still has a lot to offer in carddecks for Evo, so just give the game to the community, Mr Sprange.

Let's have sort of an agreement that new rules and carddecks will also be distributed through Signs&Portents Wargamer as this magazin might as well give us at evocommand some reputation. You invented a game you can be proud of, MGP. Now be also proud to be one of the first game producers that successfully gave fans the opportunity to create a world of new units and variants, using your brilliant idea, without having to sue them like GW does :twisted:

Some new models added might still do the trick. :wink:
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:49 pm

I dunno if I like moving even further into the future, a large part of the game's appeal to me is the near-future aspect with upgrades of current gear mixed with the now-bleeding edge. I do like the idea of semi-officialising fan input, but what I really want to see is the continuation of the minis line, as there's too much bittiness in what's easily availible from model manafactuers. Even to put out infantry of various stripes and the vehicles that aren't gettable from other sources...
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