No Vree Ships with the Carrier Trait

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No Vree Ships with the Carrier Trait

Postby Keith » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:04 pm

We have just started a campaign including the Vree and have noticed they have no ships with the carrier trait. This has implications for regenerating fighters between campaign turns (i.e. they can't). Other races may be similarly handicapped but we have not investigated this.

In order to overcome this we gave the Xeel the "Carrier 1" trait as a house rule. This should have little effect on its combat effectiveness while allowing the trait to be lost; a fate that could be suffered by any carrier. Anyone out there have any thioughts on this?
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Postby H » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:07 pm

you can houserule as you see fit really.
I can't really confim or deny the usefulness, playing fleets with little interest in fighters on the whole. just a shame the drakh mothership can't rebuild raiders ;-)
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Postby CaptBavo » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:34 pm

I figured it was a built in weakness of the Vree in campaigns, Psi-Corps doesn't have a ship with the Carrier trait either.
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Lord David the Denied
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:57 pm

Isn't it the fleet carrier trait that regenerates fighters, not carrier x?
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nekomata fuyu
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Postby nekomata fuyu » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:26 pm

It's the carrier trait. Note that the space station has the carrier trait, so at least we can still use that.
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Postby Dizzy Vree » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:51 pm

we(well, i do) play the xeel with carrier1, a: lets it dump its fighters
b: the fighter re-spawn

i reckon the weaponry on the xeel should be reduced and make it an actual carrier, cus wiht carrier 1, it is a tad over powerd, not raid level but almost
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:16 pm

neko wrote:It's the carrier trait. Note that the space station has the carrier trait, so at least we can still use that.
p16-17 of the rules - Carrier allows you launch more fighters (and in Campaigns allows flights to operate independantly and regain flights )

Fleet Carrier allows regenerationin battles and gives dogfight bonus
:D
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Lord David the Denied
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:17 pm

That's what I was thinking. :?
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nekomata fuyu
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Postby nekomata fuyu » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:38 pm

Da Boss wrote:
neko wrote:It's the carrier trait. Note that the space station has the carrier trait, so at least we can still use that.
p16-17 of the rules - Carrier allows you launch more fighters (and in Campaigns allows flights to operate independantly and regain flights )

Fleet Carrier allows regenerationin battles and gives dogfight bonus
:D
p85-86 - Ships with the Carrier trait may automatically replenish up to two lost flights off Fighters in the Repairs and Reinforcements phase each turn.
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Postby Taran » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:10 pm

Yeah, in the campaigns, is what they are talking about...

I thought there was a thread a week or so ago concerning a big bonus the Vree have in campaigns, as well...

Might be that's why they don't have any ships with the Carrier Trait...
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Postby Ripple » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:33 pm

There was such a thread, the other duties table for the Vree is awesome for getting more RR.

On the Xeel getting carrier, not unless your giving it out like candy to everyone who does have it. (Abbai, Pak'Ma'Ra, Psi Corp, not sure on others) And giving it out in a way that allows them to regen all the fighters they can take.

If your purpose is to allow the Vree to have it, why did you give it to the xeel, why not up on the Z'takk?

As to the on table effectiveness, it's big boost due to being able to use Scramble Scramble at the higher rate. Not a big deal in some scenarios, but important in others.

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LaranosTZ
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Postby LaranosTZ » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:10 pm

Another question, a ship can always deploy one fighter a turn as long as it's not on an SA, what does giving it carrier 1 really do, other then allow it to regenerate fighters between campaign turns?
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nekomata fuyu
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Postby nekomata fuyu » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:03 pm

Normally scrambling would allow you to launch 2 fighter flights. With Carrier 1 you'd be able to scramble and launch 3 fighter flights.
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Postby Keith » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:00 pm

The point of the Carrier 1 trait is that it lets you launch 1 flight a turn. You can do that with any ship which carries auxillary craft. Unless I have missed something in all ships in the book with the carrier X trait the X is greater than 1 so allowing quicker deployment of craft.

The sole purpose for us adpoting the Carrier 1 trait was the effect on fighter replacements in a campaign.
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Postby Fiztbane_65 » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:56 pm

Wouldn't the Conglomerate Backing rule the the Vree get in campaigns allow them to rebuy fighters? I would think that these extra 10RR that the vree get for this rule would allow them to rebuy fighters with it.
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Lord David the Denied
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Postby Lord David the Denied » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:00 pm

It would, and it might go some way to compensating for the lack of a carrier that gets free fighters. You don't hear the Shadows and Vorlons complaining about this, do you?
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Postby Ripple » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:26 pm

The problem is that carrier 1 gives you an advantage on the table due to the interaction with Scramble Scramble.

Our campaign solution for the inequality in free fighters was to give every player one patrol point of fighters free a turn. Much fairer than the two free flights which could be anywhere from an 1/4 of a patrol point to two patrol points if you start handing out free carrier traits.

And best of all no table interaction at all.

(admittedly, giving something to a ship already pretty questionable on its balance didn't sit well with me from the outset. But I understand the issue, and you do indeed hear vorlon and shadow players complaining... go back and read through the shadow fighter epic thread.)

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Postby Target » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:37 pm

Pretty sure vorlon players want a carrier as well.
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Dizzy Vree
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Postby Dizzy Vree » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:55 pm

Lord David the Denied wrote:It would, and it might go some way to compensating for the lack of a carrier that gets free fighters. You don't hear the Shadows and Vorlons complaining about this, do you?
i hear them complaining ALL THE FRIKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, shadows go on about fighters, vorlon players winge about not having anything with fighters let alone fighters
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