Should the MI use tanks

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.

Should the Mobile Infantary use Tanks?

Yes
18
40%
No
17
38%
Whatever, I don't care this is retarded
10
22%
 
Total votes: 45
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Hiromoon
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:58 am

Let's do a quick review:

- SciFi isn't supposed to make sense.
- Tanks would be under mined by the Arachnids
- Tanks couldn't be dropped like Cap Troopers
- Tanks don't fit with Heinlein's Mobile Infantry concept
- The only proof is a piece of rejected concept art
- There's no overlap for ammunition
- Tanks aren't Scifi

Any that I missed, Max? And if I might say, you've missed the pro-tank side's arguments too, like the fact that we said it made sense for LAMI, the fact that you wouldn't use power suits like in Heinlein's novels for planetary defense, and a few other things.
I can't be bothered.


And yet you continue....
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Postby MaxSteiner » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:01 am

MaxSteiner wrote:Can we please not start this tank arguament again?
Theres no new arguaments on either side, and the state of play still remains:
Tanks in the game: No problem
Tanks for humans: No problem
Tanks for Sicon: No problem
Tanks for LAMI: Could be shoehorned in.
Tanks for the MI: Makes no sense from any point of any of the source material, other than one piece of concept art which gets used to support the entire premise.
Just noticed the end of your message: Damn you're right, I do seem drawn to your repetitive arguments somehow
Last edited by MaxSteiner on Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quark wrote:EGADS! When did MAX BECOME THE VOICE OF REASON AROUND HERE?! :shock: :lol:
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:07 am

And they're strong arguments. Besides, I believe I even mentioned that they made more sense for the LAMI, though in the concept art it's guys in Power Armor manning it.
Just noticed the end of your message: Damn you're right, I do seem drawn to your repetitive arguments somehow
Well, the tiny brained moth does go towards the brightest light afterall.
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Postby MaxSteiner » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:09 am

:) :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quark wrote:EGADS! When did MAX BECOME THE VOICE OF REASON AROUND HERE?! :shock: :lol:
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Postby 127th Angry Angels » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:12 am

Ok, time for a voice from the third option in the poll....

DUDES, THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES!! Mongoose have many many other things to get right be fore this matters.

You guys are fans of this game. You know the game/rules/minatures and hobby well. Focus your passion into feedback on what counts. IF the relaunch is to suceed your feedback is valuable but direct it to the relaunch not an issue that won't come up unless they get the first bit right.

Don't argue about tanks. Argue about better sculpts, advertising, supply and demand, poses, pricing. Do what we can to get useful feedback, make the game a success and then start arguing about IF the FANS think the M.I should have tanks and take that info to MGP. Also, this agruement only becomes relevant if mongoose have any inclination to do armour and at the moment there are ranges of models that need doing and or redoing.

:wink: This is not worth falling out with each other over when you potentially have alot of things in common.
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Postby Poko » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:31 am

DUDES, THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES!!
amen.seriously.the last edition didn't do bad because ther were no stinking,useless,nobody-loves-them-everyone-prefers-sexy-mechas tanks(yeah,i don't love the idea either :lol: ). it did bad because the sculpts weren't on par with the rules. they weren't even on par with WH40k sculpts,which should be the absolute minimum for any sort of mainstream game.
i haven't posted since the epic fail that sstevo turned out to be, and the game all but died here,but i'd like MG to succed this time, the game deserves it.

it was good to hear the sculpts are going to be re-done,but frankly, either the company hires a better sculptor,or they be sure they use correct beating stick this time. another series of skinny slaves-level models and the game will nosedive faster than saying "crappy crap is crap" :?
i'm happy to hear the PAMI will be metal,hopefully glueing the arms together won't be such a chore anymore,not to mention poses that look less like chesspieces and more like gaming minis.
same with Froth-i sincerly hope they don;t release them as they were.the fenris and that spider-thing were almost ok, but the small biped was abysmal.as were the weapons.

THEN we may argue about stupid tanks destroying the game's feel :P
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:29 am

Heinlein was a visionary, and saw possibilities - and thus was very open minded with regards to his own imagination (though not necessarily in other ways).

Those who are saying no to Tanks are being very closed minded, locking onto one idea (in this case Powered Armour and Marauder Suits) and saying "this is the only way to go".

They should all become Politicians, after all they have the 'locked' mindset . . . . . .

What Hiromoon and myself are advocating is possibilities, and isn't that really what Science Fiction is all about.
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Postby SickBunny » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:50 am

You know, I think solid points have been made by most parties, and that is good, but here is why I dont see tanks in the MI...

Because the Federation is arrogant. Everything about the Federation reeks of sheer, blatant arrogance for the majestic superiority of the human way. And thus, despite all of the true leadership of Federation being citizens and thus likely warveterans (though once again, military is -not- the only way to gain citizenship but it is the one I can only assume is the most popular), the ones that seek the highest positions and actually gain them are likely the posterchildren of the militant superiority complex...

And from that spawns the arrogance that tanks are for sissies because the MI is the most superior military might -Ever-. In their minds. And thus, because in their blatant arrogance they think that the Federation will always, -always-, wage war on its own terms, they need to only specialize further still. Make better, faster, heavier armed Power Suits. The entire military might of the Federation is keyed for a single purpose; Hit them first, hit them hard and get off planet. Repeat if necessary.

Only now have they began to wander about the sense in such tight military tactics as the massacre of Klendathu and other equally complete failures have proven. But still, the leadership Is arrogant and flawed.

And until they begin to -completely- overhaul the Federations military strategies, tanks are and will be a moot point as they are Not Mobile Infantry. The moment they admit to true frontline tanks, they are no longer the Federation they are today. They will be a more cautious, more tactically flexible warmachine.

But you know what, then they are not so extreme and so very different from everything in the world now... then they are just hummies in tanks and suits... then they make sense... and that makes me a sad panda... :lol:
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Postby Poko » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:05 pm

Those who are saying no to Tanks are being very closed minded, locking onto one idea (in this case Powered Armour and Marauder Suits) and saying "this is the only way to go".
well,maybe becuase they want to play SST the game,and not "some generic game that happened to be named Starship troopers"? that's what the tank lot want. a game with all the usual **** thrown in(i'm sure someone will claim MI needs submarines and kamikaze gliders at some point just beacuse he is a fan of them and "it makes sense"). SST is not generic, it's almost excusivley about men in powered suits vs the bug horde. it does make allowances for the bastard children of the book-the movies and the CGI(which would be best left forgotten),but giving MI tanks would derail the feel of the game. it would be akin to taking away the chainswords and powerfists from SM in 40k, and giving them assorted cultery for weapons. yeah,they'd still be SM,but it would be ridicoulus.
if i want to play tanks i go for a game where tanks make sense from fluff standpoint and don't need to be shoehorned into the fluff. sst is not that game.
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:06 pm

Hmm? Wow Poko... you totally miss the point. Good to see you think I want another generic game. How about I punch you in the mouth while we're at it since I feel that that's probably the only way you'd get a hint, being so non-generic and all?

Edit: As for SST being exclusively men in powersuits, I don't suppose you know what the TAC Fighter is then, right? A semi-conventional aircraft (okay, a air/space dominance fighter)....
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Postby SickBunny » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:15 pm

Hiromoon wrote:How about I punch you in the mouth while we're at it since I feel that that's probably the only way you'd get a hint, being so non-generic and all?


Aaaand that crossed the line from civil discussion to stupid...
Hiromoon wrote: Edit: As for SST being exclusively men in powersuits, I don't suppose you know what the TAC Fighter is then, right? A semi-conventional aircraft (okay, a air/space dominance fighter)....
He did state almost exclusively... in which he is correct... a TAC fighter is one pilot... vs the 30+ odd grunts slopping away in the dirt dodging claws...
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:16 pm

Yeah yeah my bad. I'm up in the morning and really just want to punch someone in the mouth... who invented AM anyway?

Edit: There's more to it than just the TAC Fighter. We're also doing trench warfare and fixed fortifications as well, along with emplacements.
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Postby Poko » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:20 pm

How about I punch you in the mouth while we're at it since I feel that that's probably the only way you'd get a hint, being so non-generic and all?
as i seem to recall you'r not female,not 20 and not wearing appropriate costume,i fear i must decline :oops:
Edit: As for SST being exclusively men in powersuits, I don't suppose you know what the TAC Fighter is then, right? A semi-conventional aircraft
whose roles is to support the suits on the ground,is it not? might as well argue it's the missiles that play the major role in the story,since there's plenty of them :wink:
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:24 pm

Poko wrote:
Those who are saying no to Tanks are being very closed minded, locking onto one idea (in this case Powered Armour and Marauder Suits) and saying "this is the only way to go".
well,maybe becuase they want to play SST the game,and not "some generic game that happened to be named Starship troopers"? that's what the tank lot want. a game with all the usual **** thrown in(i'm sure someone will claim MI needs submarines and kamikaze gliders at some point just beacuse he is a fan of them and "it makes sense"). SST is not generic, it's almost excusivley about men in powered suits vs the bug horde. it does make allowances for the bastard children of the book-the movies and the CGI(which would be best left forgotten),but giving MI tanks would derail the feel of the game. it would be akin to taking away the chainswords and powerfists from SM in 40k, and giving them assorted cultery for weapons. yeah,they'd still be SM,but it would be ridicoulus.
if i want to play tanks i go for a game where tanks make sense from fluff standpoint and don't need to be shoehorned into the fluff. sst is not that game.
Now that REALLY is narrow minded.

Air Assets were a big part of 40k before SST was published, should we get rid of them too.

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Postby 127th Angry Angels » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:36 pm

Ok, so the measured response didn't do it and we've desended even further. Let me try another angle.

What do you hope to achieve from this argument?

It's going nowhere- on either side.

You guys don't agree, you're not going to and Mongoose have not backed either side.


Stop the Trench War posting, no one wins. It'll just escalate and escalate until the thread get's locked. We've enough things causing issues with SST with out this...
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:38 pm

Hmm? You posted something relavent to the arguement before, 127th? ;)
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Postby 127th Angry Angels » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:10 pm

Hiromoon wrote:Hmm? You posted something relavent to the arguement before, 127th? ;)
It's shocking i know.... :P
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Postby MaxSteiner » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:13 pm

Hiromoon wrote: Edit: As for SST being exclusively men in powersuits, I don't suppose you know what the TAC Fighter is then, right? A semi-conventional aircraft (okay, a air/space dominance fighter)....
Ok;
A) At least TAC fighters appear in one of the sources!
B) TAC Fighters are used by the fleet, not the MI, and SST is about the MI.
C) You're really losing it Hiro, you should take a chill pill and stop getting so riled up.
Lieutenant Rasczak wrote: Now that REALLY is narrow minded.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry that just seems like something which could just as easily be levelled at a couple of other people who've been posting in this thread (No doubt including me).

Can't the people who want tanks just play whatever Evo's gonna be called? Plenty of tanks in that and it doesn't require a piece of rejected concept art and conjecture to support their presence :wink:
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm

MaxSteiner wrote:Sorry that just seems like something which could just as easily be levelled at a couple of other people who've been posting in this thread (No doubt including me).
Max, considering Hiromoon and myself are advocating the expanding of options rather than narrowing them (or keeping them narrow) as you are doing - that has possibly got to be one of the dumbest things you have ever written.

Sorry, you have utterly lost the right to be considered the voice of reason.
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:24 pm

MaxSteiner wrote: B) TAC Fighters are used by the fleet, not the MI, and SST is about the MI.
Then by that it shouldn't be in.
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