Snipers!

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
shotgun-toting chipmunk
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Snipers!

Postby shotgun-toting chipmunk » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:02 pm

S&P 49 gives us stats for snipers, and optional rules for countersniping. This should prove interesting. That said, I have two concerns:

1. Three or four snipers/sniper teams for a support slot?! Considering how many support slots you can have in an army, this is rediculous.

Here's an example of what I mean:

1000 pt USMC Infantry Force
2xInfantry Squads @ 185 pts each
6xSniper Teams @ 50 pts each
1xAbrams @ 420pts
990 pts

(For added craziness, replace the Abrams with 6 Shadows, one for each sniper team!)

Snipers are specialist units, they shouldn't be so numerous on the battlefield. (The MEA is the only force I could see doing this and having it kind of feel right.)

2. Points cost. Consider this comparison of the MEA sniper vs PLA sniper team: for 5 pts more, the PLA gets a sniper rifle with longer range and no once per turn/no reaction limit, and an extra rifleman. Normally I insist on playing before knocking, but this just doesn't seem right.

Anybody see something I could be missing in either of these cases?
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The Old Soldier
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Postby The Old Soldier » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:46 pm

Remember way back when STC, when I went on a tirate over snipers? THIS was my main contention. You could do what I do, just limit ONE sniper team per Platoon. (or two if your adventureous.)
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Postby Hiromoon » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:48 pm

I'm willing to allow my opponent to have as many snipers as currently allowed, as long as my counter-sniper fire consists of a precision fire warhead capable of leveling a building.
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Postby rvrratt » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:35 am

No matter what game you play, there will always be exploitation of the rules. As an old gaming veteran its more important to look at whom your playing that whats on the battlefield. Cheesey players don't play in my group, period. Worry more about whom you decide to share your time with in a gaming session.

When was anyone ever happy with the cards released? I'm surpised Mongoose hasn't stopped releasing them. Unfortunately it seems like the same people that always complain and bash. I'm surprised there haven't been any comparisons To Pieta's cards yet. LOL!
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JayRaider
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Postby JayRaider » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:19 am

It will be fun to start Sniping. :D
I'll have to play a few games see how it goes.
If the amount of snipers becomes a problem, i'll house rule it as Chippie has suggested. :)
shotgun-toting chipmunk
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Postby shotgun-toting chipmunk » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:39 am

I actually like the rules Mongoose puts out, and am usually defending them. These were just a few issues I saw and wanted to know other people's thoughts (and hopefully Mongoose's...:))

Hiro's post actually brings up a good point. A massive sniper army isn't going to do much good against an Armoured platoon.
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Pietia
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Postby Pietia » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:21 am

shotgun-toting chipmunk wrote: Hiro's post actually brings up a good point. A massive sniper army isn't going to do much good against an Armoured platoon.
Yes, but why turn a perfectly good combined arms game into a a decent tank combat game, just because somebody decided that hordes of snipers is just what the doctor ordered? Even for MEA the amount of snipers that can be fielded is very unrealistic... I mean - c'mon, untrained militias don't have more marksmen than military forces...

rvrratt - any comparison to my cards is pointless. MP is trying to achieve a different gaming experience from what I am trying to do...
Let's handle this like real men - just you, me and my... GUARD!!!!
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Postby MongooseMatt » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:03 am

Hiromoon wrote:I'm willing to allow my opponent to have as many snipers as currently allowed, as long as my counter-sniper fire consists of a precision fire warhead capable of leveling a building.
Or a tank, as it is otherwise called. . .
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Postby lastbesthope » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:49 pm

msprange wrote:
Hiromoon wrote:I'm willing to allow my opponent to have as many snipers as currently allowed, as long as my counter-sniper fire consists of a precision fire warhead capable of leveling a building.
Or a tank, as it is otherwise called. . .
I used thattactic in the singles BF:Evo tourney at Mongoose Towers. Couldn't hit the Fedayeen directly so just kept rolling a d10 for my challenger until I got a 10, even the biggest building goes down when that happens.

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kodiak155
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Snipers data cards

Postby kodiak155 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:00 pm

There are two different data cards out for USMC Snipers. One has US Army snipers pictured (you can tell by the digitals they're wearing), and the second has the wrong army symbol in the upper left hand corner (it displays the European TF symbol rather than the USMC symbol) with a picture of possibly a Delta sniper on top of a vehicle sighting in on a target.
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Postby SGT_Saunders » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:14 am

I've just started playing for the first time and me and friends are really enjoying the simple concept of the game and the ease of play when you get going.

Now that I've had a chance to checkout the snipers a bit there is one problem I have found that doesn't relate too much the the snipping tactics in general but a piece of gear that is available to the USMC snipers.

They say you can upgrade the standard rifle to the Berrett for no extra cost, however there is no advantage for doing so. The Berrett should cost more to upgrade to and should do a little more damage considering it is a .50 round meant for taking out light armor as well as people.

I'm not sure of how much it should cost for the upgrade but I do believe it should have a D6+2 or +3 for it's damage so it can damage light armor.

Anybody else?
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Chiwie
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Postby Chiwie » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:10 am

M109: Optional upgrade. The M109 gains a +3 bonus to its Damage Dice against all models of Size 2 or smaller
M-40A3: The M-40A3 gains a +2 bonus to its Damage Dice, against Size 1 targets only.
The M109 has 10" range on the M-40A3 as well...

However you lose the ability to fire and retain stealth, so it’s an even trade off, MGP made the right call to keep the pts costs the same for the M-40A3 and M109.
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Postby SARC » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:16 pm

The M-109 is 1xd6 and is +3 for targets size 2 or less. Makes a mess of technicals.
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Postby Rabidchild » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:20 am

SGT_Saunders wrote: .50 round meant for taking out light armor as well as people.
The m109 is actually a 25mm round! But yes, like the others say, stealth for one and hard hitting for the other so it's a wash.
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Postby toturi » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:48 am

Rabidchild wrote:
SGT_Saunders wrote: .50 round meant for taking out light armor as well as people.
The m109 is actually a 25mm round! But yes, like the others say, stealth for one and hard hitting for the other so it's a wash.
It is only a wash for the USMC. There are no drawbacks for the SAS.
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Postby Chiwie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:20 am

toturi wrote:
Rabidchild wrote:
SGT_Saunders wrote: .50 round meant for taking out light armor as well as people.
The m109 is actually a 25mm round! But yes, like the others say, stealth for one and hard hitting for the other so it's a wash.
It is only a wash for the USMC. There are no drawbacks for the SAS.
thats gotta be a typo.....
toturi
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Postby toturi » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:07 am

Typo or not, there's no errata.
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Postby hithero » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:38 pm

Makes you wonder how much playtesing and proof reading they do - or at least reply and either give an explanation for the rules difference or put their hands up and make the change.
The Old Soldier
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Postby The Old Soldier » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:44 pm

Just make the change that fits. After all these cards are not sacred. No one will arrest you. Have fun with your games, and just think of all this stuff as nothing more than a guideline.
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