Blue Stars

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
CrookedWookie
Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:02 pm

Blue Stars

Postby CrookedWookie » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:12 pm

Can someone take a moment and explain the Blue Stars to me? By way of explanation, I have ordered the books but haven't gotten them yet, so I've seen stats online but no flavor text or explanation of some of the new special abilities and whatnot.

Just looking at the stats I was a little confused about the ship's purpose. I figured they were scouts--which would have been great--but they don't have the Scout ability. They're fast and manuverable but only have short-range pulsars as weapons. And they have some kind of weird double-jump ability and having not actually read the books yet I have no idea how that works or what it's designed to accomplish.

Can anyone give me the rundown on the ships and what their role is in an ISA fleet--and explain the double-jump point thing, too? Thanks, gang!
User avatar
bondp99
Stoat
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: Bavaria

Postby bondp99 » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:05 pm

CrookedWookie
Weasel
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:02 pm

Postby CrookedWookie » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:36 pm

But, see, that's part of the reason why I was asking; despite everything I've read about them being designed as scouts for the White Star fleet, they don't have the Scout trait in the game--at least not in the stats I saw.

If they had Scout I would absolutely understand their role in the game and why they were useful despite their limited abilities. But they seemingly AREN'T scouts.

I was more hoping someone could enlighten me on the purpose of them in terms of the game and what role they would fill in an ACTA fleet, not really in B5 lore in general.
User avatar
Silvereye
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1985
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:04 pm
Location: Drowning in acid on Freya's Prospect
Contact:

Postby Silvereye » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:54 pm

No they are certainly not Scouts in the ECM/ECCM warfare stakes like the Corvan and the Leshath et al.

They are more like reconnaissance units instead.
Andy W
Collector of dead wargames
User avatar
Voronesh
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:11 pm
Location: Heidelberg

Postby Voronesh » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:03 pm

They work more like a forward force recon unit. Trash any light resistance they find, especially enemy EW scouts, and get out real fast if the enemy has a strong force in place and report back.

I guess the scout trait represents AWACS aircraft of today nicely.
"We are out of energy mines sir!"
"What? When did logistics stop supplying us?"
"2nd edition, sir."


Don't mind me, im just playing Devil's Advocate of the Shuuka.
User avatar
Lord David the Denied
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4260
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:39 am
Location: Northampton, UK

Postby Lord David the Denied » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:07 pm

Blue Stars excel at flanking and harassing attacks or picking off badly damaged ships. Lone fighter flights could also be a quick kill for them.
User avatar
Spideredd
Mongoose
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:43 pm
Location: The Stycks, England

Postby Spideredd » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:40 pm

You may want to consider the fact that they have the duel hyerspace engines. It's definatly a reccy ship.
Life is like a box of chocolates.
Some bugger always nicks the best bits before you get there.
Ripple
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2375
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:53 pm

Postby Ripple » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:32 am

It is unfortunate that the term 'scout' got tacked onto EW platforms.

Ripple
User avatar
David, Anla Shok'
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Fortress of Light, Colorado
Contact:

Postby David, Anla Shok' » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:50 am

How about opening a jump point, take the Blue Star and a number of fighters into hyperspace then drop the whole kit and kaboodle behind the bad guys?
Regards,
We are Anla Shok. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. "David. From nowhere in particular. Shok'Na, Captain. I'm looking for something."
User avatar
H
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 6224
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:29 pm
Location: Here

Postby H » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:33 am

the blue stars are great initiative sinks, not that the ISA really need them, and they excel at picking off wounded ships, flanking and encircling maneuvres
I AM RONIN!
User avatar
lastbesthope
Executive Mongoose
Posts: 19697
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Postby lastbesthope » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:08 pm

David, Anla Shok' wrote:How about opening a jump point, take the Blue Star and a number of fighters into hyperspace then drop the whole kit and kaboodle behind the bad guys?
Regards,
When they exited into hyperspace it would count as a strategic withdrawal and they'd be out of the game.

LBH
I'll live forever, heaven won't let me in and hell's afraid I'll take over!!!

Mongoose Accolades
User avatar
David, Anla Shok'
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Fortress of Light, Colorado
Contact:

Postby David, Anla Shok' » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:02 pm

lastbesthope wrote:
David, Anla Shok' wrote:How about opening a jump point, take the Blue Star and a number of fighters into hyperspace then drop the whole kit and kaboodle behind the bad guys?
Regards,
When they exited into hyperspace it would count as a strategic withdrawal and they'd be out of the game.

LBH
Well, it sez here in the fleet list
"* The Blue Star may create up to two jump points in a battle, though these must be an entry into hyperspace and an exit out – it may not create two entries or two exits in the same battle."
We are Anla Shok. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. "David. From nowhere in particular. Shok'Na, Captain. I'm looking for something."
katadder
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 5005
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:49 pm
Location: lincoln, uk
Contact:

Postby katadder » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:10 pm

yeah so it can jump in and then jump out, but if your jump out its a tactical withdrawel.
1st & Only Centauri Grand Admiral

LONAW Fleets: http://www.mediafire.com/?tddmi2mjcl2
User avatar
Burger
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8150
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Postby Burger » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:16 pm

Besides you can't move the fighters into the jump point... fighters move after ships... as soon as the BS went through, the JP would collapse. You'd have to open the JP, take the fighters through, then wait til next turn for the BS to come through.

But as LBH said it wouldn't work since if you jump out you've withdrawn.
Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth.

Image
User avatar
David, Anla Shok'
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Fortress of Light, Colorado
Contact:

Postby David, Anla Shok' » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:00 pm

Burger wrote:Besides you can't move the fighters into the jump point... fighters move after ships... as soon as the BS went through, the JP would collapse. You'd have to open the JP, take the fighters through, then wait til next turn for the BS to come through.

But as LBH said it wouldn't work since if you jump out you've withdrawn.
Note, the ship opening a jump point may keep it open for up to three turns. Also, is no one else noting the inconsistancy here? a ship that can jump out and into a battlefield by its own specific description yet we are told that ships that jump out are "withdrawing"? Some clarification is called for here.
Regards,
We are Anla Shok. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. "David. From nowhere in particular. Shok'Na, Captain. I'm looking for something."
User avatar
Burger
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8150
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Postby Burger » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:03 pm

David, Anla Shok' wrote:
Burger wrote:Besides you can't move the fighters into the jump point... fighters move after ships... as soon as the BS went through, the JP would collapse. You'd have to open the JP, take the fighters through, then wait til next turn for the BS to come through.

But as LBH said it wouldn't work since if you jump out you've withdrawn.
Note, the ship opening a jump point may keep it open for up to three turns. Also, is no one else noting the inconsistancy here? a ship that can jump out and into a battlefield by its own specific description yet we are told that ships that jump out are "withdrawing"? Some clarification is called for here.
Regards,
You can keep it open for 3 turns, yes. But the manouver you describe, if it were legal, would take 4 turns to perform -- making it pretty useless anyway. The battle would be decided before they got back.

As katadder said he dual jump engines are for jumping in then out. The rules as written are pretty clear, there is no inconsistency.
Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth.

Image
User avatar
David, Anla Shok'
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Fortress of Light, Colorado
Contact:

Postby David, Anla Shok' » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:28 pm

Burger wrote:
David, Anla Shok' wrote:
Burger wrote:Besides you can't move the fighters into the jump point... fighters move after ships... as soon as the BS went through, the JP would collapse. You'd have to open the JP, take the fighters through, then wait til next turn for the BS to come through.

But as LBH said it wouldn't work since if you jump out you've withdrawn.
Note, the ship opening a jump point may keep it open for up to three turns. Also, is no one else noting the inconsistancy here? a ship that can jump out and into a battlefield by its own specific description yet we are told that ships that jump out are "withdrawing"? Some clarification is called for here.
Regards,
You can keep it open for 3 turns, yes. But the manouver you describe, if it were legal, would take 4 turns to perform -- making it pretty useless anyway. The battle would be decided before they got back.

As katadder said he dual jump engines are for jumping in then out. The rules as written are pretty clear, there is no inconsistency.
Wasn't planning on keeping it open for three turns, one would be enough. What Katadder said is interesting, but I prefer rules references to speculation. The Blue star description
* The Blue Star may create up to two jump points in a battle, though these must be an entry into
hyperspace and an exit out – it may not create two entries or two exits in the same battle.
surely indicates jumping into and out of hyperspace in a battle though it does not preclude the reverse order.
The tactical withdrawal paragraph (pg 25) would seem to indicate an act of volition, ie the ship choses to leave the battle and here is how it is done. The rules on entering hyperspace (pg 27) are indeed quite clear. Inconsistant was probably the wrong word to use. Contradictory would have been the correct one. The exception rule written for the Blue Star is also quite clear and incontrivertable. It may leave and enter the battle via hyperspace.
Regards,
We are Anla Shok. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. "David. From nowhere in particular. Shok'Na, Captain. I'm looking for something."
User avatar
lastbesthope
Executive Mongoose
Posts: 19697
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Postby lastbesthope » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:17 pm

Esteemed Ranger David,

It does say a Blue Star can make 2 Jps so long as it makes one entry into hyperspacfe and one exit out, however that statement does not imply that it is allowed to do them in that order. The rules on P.27, end of 4th paragraph) clearly state that any ship entering hyperspace is considered to have withdrawn unless entering hyperspace is a victory condition for the scenario being plaed.

Now if the Blue Star rules said

* The Blue Star may create up to two jump points in a battle, though these must be an entry into hyperspace and then an exit out – it may not create two entries or two exits in the same battle.

(Added word and emphasis mine)

Then you might have a good case.

LBH
I'll live forever, heaven won't let me in and hell's afraid I'll take over!!!

Mongoose Accolades
User avatar
nekomata fuyu
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Postby nekomata fuyu » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:17 pm

You may make one entry jump, and one exit jump. You are correct in that the Blue Star rules do not specify the order in which you need to make the jumps. The hyperspace rules state that jumping to hyperspace counts as a tactical withdrawal unless it's a victory condition of the scenario.
You must follow both rules, and as neither rule stops you from successfully following the other rule, there is no contradiction. Just because you follow one rule doesn't mean that you can choose to ignore other rules in the game.
Keep Death off the roads - clamp Binky!

Wanted: Federation Fast Cruisers (PM with offers)
User avatar
David, Anla Shok'
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Fortress of Light, Colorado
Contact:

Postby David, Anla Shok' » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:24 pm

lastbesthope wrote:Esteemed Ranger David,

It does say a Blue Star can make 2 Jps so long as it makes one entry into hyperspacfe and one exit out, however that statement does not imply that it is allowed to do them in that order. The rules on P.27, end of 4th paragraph) clearly state that any ship entering hyperspace is considered to have withdrawn unless entering hyperspace is a victory condition for the scenario being plaed.

Now if the Blue Star rules said

* The Blue Star may create up to two jump points in a battle, though these must be an entry into hyperspace and then an exit out – it may not create two entries or two exits in the same battle.

(Added word and emphasis mine)

Then you might have a good case.



LBH
Ok. Sorry, I am not following your logic. The Blue Star description doesn't imply that, it states that you may go into and out of hyperspace. I don't know how you could use any sort of inflection to indicate otherwise. However, to recapitulate. As we say here, rules is rules. The hyperspace rules are indeed quite clear. But, the Blue Star rule appears to be the exception to it. As the movement rules are clear, and the Vree "move as if supermanueverable" rule are an exception to them.
Regards,
We are Anla Shok. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. "David. From nowhere in particular. Shok'Na, Captain. I'm looking for something."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests