Taking War level ships in Raid fleets.

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Greg Smith
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Postby Greg Smith » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:13 pm

Bubba Ho-Tep wrote:I play a Sharlin and 2 Tinashi fleet. It's what I played at Gen Con, but like mentioned, only having 3 ships was a big disadvantage, stealth was my only saving grace.
Isn't that 8 Raid points? Or were they Torothas?
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Postby No. 1 Bear » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:21 pm

The thing is taking a big ship is like having the bismark on your side. Yes it kicks but in one on one or even 1 vs 2 but to "sink" a ship of that size you resort to swarm and just surround it. However in a balanced game system (that ACTA generally is) the fight should be fair even though it has been sorrounded. However this usually is not the case as many of those little ships are evil critters.
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Postby Triggy » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:24 pm

When I took an Octurion plus two Maximuses to the Mongoose tourney, they performed adequately, winning one game, very narrowly losing another and in the other two (and at the end of the other one I lost) I suffered a weapons destroyed critical early in the game and lost them for that reason. Now if a 4-6 was rolled, the Octurion would come out pretty fine so is better than before. I'd say they are viable fleets, if not exactly optimal.
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Postby Karhedron » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:29 pm

I would not try it Narn, EA or any other race where you big beam weapons are boresighted. without some initiative sinks you will be unlikely to be able to target any decent ships of the enemy.

With other races where the main weapons are foward arc, you might just be able to pull it off. As someone mentioned, a Sharlin just hanging back (perhaps accompanied by a Leshath for rerolls) will be quite hard to shift.
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Postby Triggy » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:01 pm

The best options in my opinion are probably (in order):

Drakh Dra'Vash Cruiser
Centauri Octurion
ISA White Star Carrier
Abbai Juyaca
pak'ma'ra Pshul'shi
Vorlon Light Cruiser
Minbari Sharkaan
Minbari Sharlin
ISA Tara'Lin
Minbari Sharoos
Minbari Neshatan
Vree Z'Takk
Shadow Ship (Young)
Dilgar Mankhat
Dilgar Mankhat Py
Dilgar Mishakur
EA Poseidon
Brakiri Cidikar
Narn Bin'Tak
Narn G'Vrahn
Brakiri Cidikar
EA Warlock
EA Command Omega
Narn G'Quonth
Brakiri Tashkat
Brakiri Takata
Drazi Fireraptor

Anything from the Shadow Ship upwards are options I'd actually consider as competative :)
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Postby voodoomachine » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:09 pm

We played a raid 5 last night, Vorlons vs Shadows.

Shadows (me) took two battle and a raid.

Vorlons took a War and two skirmish.

I ended up taking out both of his skirmish, he took out one of my battles. However, after that he couldn't do anything, as I hide my raid behind an asteroid field, and let my battle sit behind him doing damage.

Unfortunately I couldn't do enough damage in the last few turns to destroy him. Stupid adaptive armor.

I'll take battles in a raid level. I don't think I'd take wars unless it was a high FA game.
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Postby Keith » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:54 pm

Last battle I fought was between the Vorlons and ISA. It was a5 point battle but he ISA fielded a Victory and a G'Quan the volons, fileded a light cuiser a destroyer and 3 transports (so similar to a war choice in the 5 point raid situation).

The G'Quan got destroyed by a single shot fronm the destroyer early on (12 hits 8 of which were citicals). The Victory was then finished off fairly quickly, though it did see off the Transports. It was done in by criticals (the first turn it was hit it took 2 critcals preventing special actions, the next turn it took the Engineering vital system critical). I think it was carring between 15 an 20 criticals before it was finally destroyed.

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Postby Chernobyl » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:58 pm

back at Kublacon, I fought against a Bin'Tak (under 1e rules) in a 5 point raid. It was not an easy fight, and took the entire battle but I killed it eventually. I was able to use terrain to help in that fight. And that wasn't a swarm fleet, either - no patrol choices. 3 raid and 4 skirmish if memory serves.

but generally I think its a Bad Idea in any wargame, to put 80% of your force in a single unit. So you might take that war-ship in a larger raid game, say, 8 points, but I advise against it in a 5 point fight.

The only ships that might stand a chance are those with high stealth, good self-repair, or adaptive armor, or better yet, a combination of hte above!

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Postby Karhedron » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:49 pm

Chernobyl wrote:The only ships that might stand a chance are those with high stealth, good self-repair, or adaptive armor, or better yet, a combination of hte above!
AND good all-round weapons. There is no point taking a single hulking ship that has most of it's firepower in one arc. A more nimble opponent will hide in your blind arcs. See the earlier post about the big Vorlon ship.

In general I would not take a ship more than one level above the game I was playing. Exceptions can always be made but I tend to use this as a rule of thumb.
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Postby Nomad » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:04 pm

I floated an idea to stat Prelude's Nike model for just this role in another thread recently.

I've no idea if it would work, it was just to produce a War PL Crusade era ship that was distinct from the Warlock.

I may try it out at my FLGS tomorrow.
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Postby Bubba Ho-Tep » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:29 pm

Greg Smith wrote:
Bubba Ho-Tep wrote:I play a Sharlin and 2 Tinashi fleet. It's what I played at Gen Con, but like mentioned, only having 3 ships was a big disadvantage, stealth was my only saving grace.
Isn't that 8 Raid points? Or were they Torothas?
I stand corrected, yes they were Torothas, I just was thinking about the other ship right before I posted. Thanks Greg.
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Postby Locutus9956 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:40 pm

Now a Tinashi IS worth fielding in a 5 point raid and Ive had quite a bit of success wih 1 Tinashi 2 Tigaras and 2 Torothas in the past (in 1st ed mind you)

Now theyve beefed up the Torotha a little though I think my Minbari 5 point raid of choice would be 3 Tigaras and 4 Torothas. It's a f fairly unusual Minbari fleet in that its very fast moving and short ranged. It can backfire horribly but it can also be an unpleasant surprise when your opponent finds out he DOESNT massively outnumber you for a change :P
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Postby Burger » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:43 pm

I'd be tempted to try 2 Troligan's and a Tigara. Watch the enemy melt.
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