SST EVO

Discuss Mongoose miniatures game here, including Mighty Armies, Gangs of Mega-City One, and Battlefield Evolution.
lt.harper
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Postby lt.harper » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:04 pm

I think that its wrong that mongoose made exspensive prepaints.

Lissen mongoose, us gamers over hear in the states hate the prepaints, they are not laying a finger on BF evo becouse of it!
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retaf33c
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Postby retaf33c » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:15 am

Please don't speak for me. I have nowhere near the time to paint the miniatures for every game I play. Since I really don't like playing with unpainted models I welcome the prepaints.
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Postby Billy Bunter » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:45 am

lt.harper wrote:I think that its wrong that mongoose made exspensive prepaints.

Lissen mongoose, us gamers over hear in the states hate the prepaints, they are not laying a finger on BF evo becouse of it!
Spot on, its nearly killed Rackham. To risky.
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Postby Tim » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:26 pm

AT43 is actually saving Rachim, not killing it, thier financial woes come from a drop in their confrontation sales.
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Postby katadder » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:45 pm

I had heard their woes actually come from the fact they are changing confrontation and other games from metals to pre-paint plastic as AT-43 is selling well so they want to do this with all. however this means having to get rid of old stock 1st, plus the expense of setting it up.
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MaxSteiner
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Postby MaxSteiner » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:37 pm

Yeah, they've filed for financial protection whilst they regear their production (apparantly its quite common in France) toward prepaints, not announced bankruptcy.
People yelling its the death of Rackham are wide of the mark.
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Postby Hiromoon » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:46 pm

Watch, next Rackham will announce that it's going out of buisness just to spite Max.
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Lieutenant Rasczak
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:15 pm

Tim wrote:AT43 is actually saving Rachim, not killing it, thier financial woes come from a drop in their confrontation sales.
So basically, Confrontation isn't making as much money anymore and all their 'float' Cash went on AT-43 & Pre-Paints.

So its STILL AT-43/Pre-Paints thats caused the problem, whichever way you look at it.
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Postby Mage » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:23 pm

If they did AT 43 with plastic and metal the problem would never have surfaced.
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:26 pm

Bad financial planning is the bane of all businesses.

The EE blew all the LOTR Profits on Warhammer Online, and got gipped by the programmers.

Now they are not in the financially strong position they once were, Branch closures and Staff cutbacks (both in perks and numbers) are an indication of the problems they are having.
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MaxSteiner
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Postby MaxSteiner » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:38 pm

Its not bad business planning really.
AT-43 is selling so well that they've decided to switch Confronatation to prepaint.
Not being idiots Rackham realised that when you announce a new prepainted edition of a game, sales of the existing models will drop to next to nothing (Look at Starship Troopers), hence they've filed for finacial production in the interum until they iron out all of the little problems that come with such an endevor and get the product to distrubutors and on the shelves.

So whilst it is true that this wouldn't be happening if they had done AT-43 in metal, its obviously doing well enough in prepaint that they're willing to take the rough with the smooth
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Postby retaf33c » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:13 pm

Much of Rackham's problem came from the rules change they made to Confrontation. Confrontation went through several rules revisions to the point that they actually had a very good game that was well received by their following. Unfortunately they went one revision to many.

Their next revision dropped several aspects that were unique to the game while at the same time announcing that they would be moving to round bases instead of the square ones. You would have to have played the game to understand the significents of that decision. Both of these changes went a long way in alienating much of their following.

At my LGS, at one time there were a dozen or more regular players every Saturday with tournaments every couple of months that pulled as many as 30 people from Buffalo to Boston. As soon as the latest revision came out, everything stopped overnight. I now haven't seen a game played in the store in over 3 months with sales just as non existant.

I've heard reports of the same thing in other stores.

This had nothing to do with prepaints but with rule revision taken too far. Was it the cause of Rackham's problems, don't know for sure, but if it was as wide spread as I believe it was, I bet it didn't help Rackham's position.

Adding to the problem, the initial release of AT-43 didn't contain the full rules of the game. The box set contained an extremely dumbed down version that is missing many of the tactical elements. This more than the prepaints put off people who didn't want to buy in until they new what the full rules would be like. (myself included)

Now if that wasn't enough, Rackham has had the same problem meeting deadlines as Mongoose has had. And we know what that does to your following don't we! They also initially started with two factions just as SST did leaving people holding off until they saw more committment to additional factions. With Fantasy Flight Games now their US distributer, that may change. If the Karmans are as good as the pictures suggest, I suspect there will be a surge in new players when they come out next month.

So don't blame Rackham's problems on prepaints. It may turn some people off, but all you have to do is look as sales of D and D, Star Wars, and now Halo Action Clix to see that a prepainted miniatures game can be a very successful game. If the game is good and the miniatures are AVAILABLE, the game will be played. But as in Confrontation, a game that isn't enjoyable, not matter the quality of the sculpts (and you have to admit that Rackham's have been amoung the best) nobody will play.

Sorry for the rant.
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:22 pm

MaxSteiner wrote:Its not bad business planning really.
AT-43 is selling so well that they've decided to switch Confronatation to prepaint.


ACTUALLY thats not entirely right, according to my friend who works for Rackham. The real reason for moving Confrontation to pre-paints is to 'refresh the concept and range', rather than because of AT-43 selling potential.

At-43 is 'doing OK', but the guys at Rackham don't expect it to really blossom until more of the Armies are available (a similar problem that SST encountered, lack of choice).

Also, retaf33c's analysis is spot on too. That came up in the last conversation I had with my friend, Rackham are aware that the fans have become alienated by the constant revisions.
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MaxSteiner
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Postby MaxSteiner » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:44 pm

Well the whole 'alienate your existing customers' business model seem to work alright for GW :D
... Well up until recently anyway lol
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LaranosTZ
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Postby LaranosTZ » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:45 pm

Hey, constant revisions killing a game...hmmm, we don't know another company that could be considered guilty of that do we?
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Postby Lieutenant Rasczak » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:46 pm

MaxSteiner wrote:Well the whole 'alienate your existing customers' business model seem to work alright for GW :D
... Well up until recently anyway lol
Once again Max, spot on Lol! It has been on the cards for some time!
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